Features Ford Thunderbolts Photos Wanted

Cool Vids! Thanks for posting!!

 

I really have enjoyed looking at all of the TBolt pictures on this thread. It is great!

While cruising the Internet for "ghost tracks", I stumbled upon the Biolxi Dragway website. Looking through the pictures I found the photo below. It was in a group of photos from 1965. Obviously an altered wheelbase car. What struck my attention was the hood on the car. If you look closely, it appears to be one of the early clover leaf hoods and not the standard teardrop style hood. Just thought everyone might find it interesting. I also have some pics that Dick Brannan sent me that I am going to scan and post as well, as I have not seem any of them posted here.

 

Dennis, or anyone who might know, but is there one of the original Thunderbolts still in existence out there, still untouched since manufacture so to speak, that might have been put away in storage perhaps that would be a living example of what one is supposed to actually be and look like ?
Is there a real live reference Thunderbolt somewhere, or they all guaged from written specs, judged by surviving pictures, and individuals memories ??

I see a lot of 64' Fairlanes with f'glass and 425 horse 427's in them, but majority of the time, there is always something that doesn't look just right on them even to me.
Thanx; Tom S. in Tn.

 

I had a 64 Fairlane two door post while I was in the military (1990). I bought it in Texas and drove it to Grand Forks, ND.

The whole way up there, I kept getting dudes asking me if the thing had a fiberglass bumper and hood.

I ended up rolling it in a ball.....which sucked.....it was a sweet little low mileage, original paint car (gray with a red interior).

 

I believe that car is without a hood and what you are seeing is the air box.

Regards,
Dennis

 

There are about eighteen Thunderbolts that haven't been documented out of the 100 delivered. I have never heard of any "as delivered" or even original paint cars to date and the odds of finding one are very high. I'm certain every car was campaigned and for the most part eventually lettered in 1964. There are a few cars around that most of the original components stayed with the car, but that is about it.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Dennis K., What battery was installed in the trunk of the Thunderbolts?Was it an Autolite?Is there a modern replacement,like a Motorcraft? Thanks,Steve.

 

That's Sidney Foster's car at Biloxi ... those are injectors showing as I recall from a few photos that I have. That car later became a roadster.
Joel

 

I think Dennis' Bob Ford car is as close to original or "as raced" as you will find.

 

Here's a TBolt pic I found on the Double H Dragstrip site. Track was also known as Lost Mountain Dragstrip. I know that is the home track to the Strip Teaser TBolt, but I saw a pic of a different TBolt in the "pits" and wondered which one it was?

 

Joel,

Thank you for the clarification. I was aware this car ran without a hood and from the thumbnail it looked like an airbox. Here is another picture hood less with injectors. The stacks look taller, but maybe it's just the camera angle. By the way, I heard Sidney Foster himself state, later on they scrapped this car.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Re Battery:

An NHRA bulletin indicates: The battery is trunk mounted. It was an Exide Model E-63 SMR. Weight, 73 wet and 60 dry. 12volt 100 amp

Internal Ford documentation states: Exide E-36 SMR. Incidently, Ford paid $31.98 ea. This included holding dry batteries at the Exide Sales Branch, wet activation and delivered when required to Dearborn Steel Tubing. Many years ago I contacted Exide about this battery. They indicated the original application was for Mecedes Benz Diesel cars. The batteries were manufactured in Germany and shipped to the US. This battery obsoleted and was replaced by an Exide 444. In the late 80’s or early 90’s it again obsoleted and replaced by a 17TF-24. The 17TF is still available. Some individuals have used the 16 TF, which is a taller battery. However, one has to be very careful when placing it in the battery box as the posts can come in contact with the rear quarter flange and short circuit the battery.

Regards,
Dennis

 

This photograph has been discussed before. I looked at it again and I don't think it is the Bonner automatic car that Gene Wilson ran because it appears to have door locks (steel doors) and there are no NHRA decals on the rear quarter windows that appear in circa 1964 and 65 photos.

I don't think it is the Strip Teaser car when Reece Gibbs owned it as the front fenders do not appear to have the bolt on fiberglass front bumper filler panels that were painted Argent Silver. Plus the fact everyone claims Reece never raced the T-Bolt, it just sat parked in his yard.

Here is what I believe this car is, the mystery Frank Vego Ford car. If you look at the B&W photo, the front bumper there appears to be two protusions. Looking at this color photo, the same two tow eyelets. Both photos are in the following post. Also the shade of paint is another clue.

It is possible this is the Thunderbolt that Norris Swaim ran in the Atlanta area.

Does anyone know the date this B&W photo was taken or who the people are standing by the car?

Regards,
Dennis

 

Wheels also look similar.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Dennis,thanks for the info concerning my battery question.Do you know whose Comet is in the picture behind the T-Bolt?

 

That's Hubert Platt's Falcon behind the T-Bolt, not a Comet. I have some other pictures of Sidney Foster's T-Bolt. If I can find them I'll post them.
Joel

 

user 64-T-Bolt posted some pictures of a Bolt at a car show and also outside of a shop on October 26th.
That car belongs to me and is the one delievered (or picked up by) Emrhae Ford in Virginia.
It is car 88 & a 4 speed car.
Not sure where those pics came from except that I took them. Not sure where the car show pic was taken.......don't think I took that one.
Where does your friend live (approx location, not exact??)

Regards,
Jim

 

Carbs are NOT original carbs.
The shop pics are where we picked up the car from.
Thanks,
Jim

 

Dennis;
I hate to keep bothering, but if 18 are known MIA, how many documented cars are known to still exist, the balance of 82?
My biggest question might be, what happens when no one is left to authenticate a Fairlane as being one of DST's Thunderbolts? Where does the standard or point of reference lie?
Thanks; Tom S. in Tn.

 

I'd bet Hubert Platt could tell you anything you ever wanted to know about the cars in these photos, and others. Someone ought to contact him for documentation. Tom S.

 

There are about 60 cars, in some shape or form known. Out of those, it's estimated about 15 have been rebodied, replatformed, reconstructed, or what ever term you'd like to use. That means there are around 45 real cars in existence. 82 documented - 60 known = 22 were wrecked or scrapped.

Probably for any car, such as a Thunderbolt, having a lot of provenance, such as photos and documentation before the restoration would be beneficial.

There are certain details on a Thunderbolt to look for that will tell one right away, what is original and what is not.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Save your money. I've already talked to him and a lot of others in the Atlanta area, Northern KY, and Southern OH about that car. Ken Salter thought it belonged to a dairy farmer named Pennington. I believe if someone knows where Norris Swaim is, he may know more about it.

There were not a lot of T-Bolts built to begin with. There were only six of them in the Atlanta area and for some reason, no one remembers this car.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Here's another photo of Marv Tonkin & the Damerow Ford Tbolts racing at Arlington, WA. The tbolt of Potter-Durham/Wendle Ford went out in an earlier contest.

Len

 

Can those 45 surviving DST cars all be accounted for? Was the Bob Ford rebodied or am I confusing it with another?

There are a lot of people claiming to know the details, and I dare say the vast majority of them have never seen a DST car, let alone actually lay hands on one. The recollections I have are quite imperfect, and I am continually amazed with the knowledge I am gaining at this point so many years later.
And as difficult as this is for me to say, the real life people who do actually know are becoming fewer with each passing year.
It just appears to me those surviving 45 DST Fairalnes and VIN's should be permanently accounted for by the owners in some sort of permanent but publicly accessed archive registry to protect and prevent devaluation.
Make it where the purchase and exchange of ownership would have to be recorded like real property or similar.
Tom S. in Tn.

 

I can assure you Dennis K.'s Bob Ford Thunderbolt was NOT rebodied....

 

The 45 cars (actually 82) are accounted for. However, not all of them have been restored or if restored may be in the hands of private collectors and typically are not in public viewing.

By the way, neither of my Thunderbolts, the Gilmer Ford or the Bob Ford S/S car, have been rebodied. Likewise with my Ed Martin Ford 62/63 Lightweight Galaxie.

The Thunderbolt Owners Association have kept track of the Thunderbolts for 35 years. We've organized numerous Thunderbolt Reunions, a 20, 30, 40, and 45 year, where we've invited the Ford and DST personnel, original owners, drivers, and mechanics, along with the current owners and even raced the cars on the track. We are planning a 50 year reunion, June 2014 in D<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comearborn</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State>. We'll plan to see all of you there!
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Regards,
Dennis

 

#2790 " I can assure you Dennis K.'s Bob Ford Thunderbolt was NOT rebodied.... "

#2791 " By the way, neither of my Thunderbolts, the Gilmer Ford or the Bob Ford S/S car, have been rebodied. Likewise with my Ed Martin Ford 62/63 Lightweight Galaxie. "

Bear with me, and no disrespect intended fellas. I'm obviously confused with another name DST car (perhaps the Tasca Ford, some parts wound up in Canada). I recall even on this message board that Fairlane I'm trying to recall was adulterated like the one I helped on, (#87'th if I'm told correctly and I believe you should know it), back in 1970 after the original owner converted it to a straight axle match racer and then we put a big block in it due to rarity and obsolescence of parts.
I've built several Ford racers, high risers and a tunnel port once, but that's the extent of my first hand knowledge until now, and I continue to be amazed and in no way could have envisioned the potential non racing value these cars and parts possessed. And this is what strikes me as phenomenal. These cars present day value vs actual authenticity. I'm wondering how much is truly DST Thunderbolt authentic and how much is claimed Thunderbolt authentic? Like backward mounted vacuum secondary carburetors? How many of those that were on a DST car still exist?? What about DST original thick plexiglass right and left quarter windows out of one of these, with round Autolite stickers still on them, what would they be worth today?

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but if there are only 45 actual surviving bodies which DST constructed a Thunderbolt from, not rebody repro's, but actual surviving bodies left today, then wouldn't one of these 45 rival the value of a Tucker or some surviving rare and extinct pre-war automobile if able to be restored to correct caliber? And especially in light of how they were adulterated and what they were used for?? Who would risk damaging one racing it today???
I've seen T'bolts and other limited run Fords in recent years at museums and such, and even 2 T'Bolts at the Garlits collection in Fla, but now I'm left wondering just what exactly I'm really seeing. Just how real and authentic based are they?

I tried the website for the Thunderbolt Owners Association, but just 1 opening picture. No place for commentary like here, but I'm glad you and them exist to track these cars. Like Tuckers and etc., this must be done to protect the integrity of not only them, but the owners and their potential investors.

The 50 year event in Dearborn sounds absolutely fantastic.
Hate to be so lengthy, but thanks all for the education, it's defiantly been eye opening (flooring is more like it and I'm scheduled for cataract surgery this Tuesday too!) Tom S. in Tn.

 

Tom there was a question once asked in a Shelby Mustang forum about when is a Shelby no longer a Shelby. It refered to the whole original vs rebody question. I think that's what you are asking.

There doesn't seem to be a defined guideline, but everyone seemed to agree it all boiled down to if the original tub/unibody of the original car remained with a true VIN. But then even that gets gets hazy when a restoration is completed and panels need replacement because of rust or damage and how much of the rest of the car remains.

Is a Thunderbolt that is restored and only the door VIN plate is original the real thing? I'd say no. Is a car such as one that was cut up...match raced and tubbed still a Thunderbolt after it is restored and had the areas replaced from years of drag racing such as the Snake Austin car? I'd say yes as long as it is documented. Remember several Thunderbolts ended up with an altered wheel base and have been restored back to an "as delivered" state....are they still a Thunderbolt? I'd again say yes as long as they have documentation.

It all boils down to the documentation and photographs. Personally I can't see why anybody would pay big bucks for a collectors car that doesn't have a documented history and photos of the restoration but rich guys keep on throwing the money out for collector cars. If a car doesn't have a thoroughly documented history, that should throw up a red flag.

I think there is a fairly good list of what Thunderbolts remain, the ones that were destroyed and the ones that can't be accounted for. It would be really hard for someone to claim they had one of the missing cars without one heck of a story, photographs and documentation. I think the last "new" Thunderbolt discovery was like 15 years ago or more if I remember correctly.

 

To try and answer your questions:
Carburetors have Ford part numbers, Holley List #’s, and date codes. Although most cars around have the correct CU/CV carbs, I wouldn’t consider having correct carbs or not a major issue. There are many special components, although I have them, I never installed them on the car as they wouldn’t pass tech or they would be prone to breakage. i.e – RC scattershield or BW aluminum T-10 transmission. As discussed before I don’t think there is a car around that is 100% original or possibly even 100% correct. BTW, the original plexiglass did not have any trademark logos on them, although the edges were polished.

You do bring up some good points about surviving originals. The fact is only 100 were delivered and not all cars survived. This drove AWB cars, scrapped cars, or even only pieces salvaged, then repaired and built into a “car”. The issue has been discussed on what constitutes an original car or not. Precedence’s set by other clubs and organizations, i.e. - Shelby's, Mustangs, Boss 302/429, Cobra’s, etc … . There are also federal and state laws that address regarding the transfer of a VIN from one vehicle to another. This obviously is a sensitive subject.

Re the Thunderbolt Owners Association website. That belongs to Larry Short. There was a previous TOA website, but it wasn’t user-friendly, so Larry had his son who handled setting it up to find a new service provider. I’m good friends with Larry, speak to him often, and will mention your concerns to him.

Regards,
Dennis