Technical Frames Fabricated from Sheet Metal?

I've done a lot of searching for examples of scratch-built frames fabricated from sheet metal but haven't found any examples. I was almost sure I had seen a couple examples here on the HAMB but I certainly haven't found any.

One in particular was a '32 Ford styled frame that even had the lower reveal shaped into the vertical sides of the C-channel frame rails. As I recall it turned out quite nice looking.

I'm always dreaming ahead and have some ideas for a possible T roadster with a scratch built frame rather than the usual 2" X 3" rectangular tubing, or something similar. I could possibly get close to what I have in mind by sectioning out something like 4" or 5" tall rectangular tubing to achieve the upward sweep I'd like to have forward of the firewall, but I'd also like to have the rear of the frame to sweep upward to a turtledeck or 20" long pickup bed. It's just dreaming at this point for sure, but I'd bet there are some nicely done examples of sheet metal fabricated C-channel frames and I'd love to see some photos of one in process showing jigging one up, other techniques and methods as well as materials used.

Thanks.

Lynn

 

Just a Hobby (Lobeck's) were all fabbed from sheet. There were others.

 

@lake_harley I seem to recall John Buttera building a frame that way covered in Hot Rod back in the 80s.

 

Hmmm. I have a lot old Hot Rod magazines that might get into the 80's. Now.....if I can find the article might be a challenge.

Lynn

 

Always thought it would be really slick to build a T modified with rectangular tube rails ( shaped to follow body contour), but using some thick sheet metal (12 gauge, maybe) to build the, trans crossmember/seat pan /floor / driveshaft tunnel /maybe firewall…sort of uni- body/ tube frame hybrid! The object being a sunken/ low seating position.

 

Chassis pic from Rad Rides by Troy

made from sheets of steel that they added the radius. 4 pieces cut then radiused and welded in the center of the radius.

 

When I first started my chassis business I had dreams of doing 32 frames from scratch. After a few efforts my welder and I decided that ASC rails with laser cut boxing plates and a boxing fixture built by Lee Nottingham was a more efficient and easier way to reach our goal of producing boxed deuce rails.

 

I don’t know the gauge, but looks like sheet steel to me

 

ASC makes 32 rails from sheet metal. Even Henry Ford did it.

You mean welded up from flat cut sides?

At one time I consulted with a sheet metal shop in my little town that happened to have a big press brake. I was going to have them bend me up some rails, into the common open sided box, with the taper you are talking about. He quoted some very reasonable price, maybe like $200 IIRC. But that was ten years ago and I never had them made. Nowadays the same pieces would cost $1,000.

 

Not much shape, but it needed to look like the original.

 

The difference between sheet metal and tubing is that to form the tubing, the sheet metal was formed and the seam was welded at the mill.
The outfit that forms the sheet metal into the tuning is about the only difference. I would think to have the sheet metal formed at some local facility would be much more costly then buying the tube, but the locally formed tube could have very specific dimensions. Having the tubes formed locally could also allow for more gauge thickness choices.
The bumpers on my coupe are both formed from 11 gauge sheet metal, as is the rear bumper on my 49 truck.

I think the biggest thing is, most guys think of 18 gauge sheets as sheet metal when in reality nearly every metal thickness is available in sheets of metal, with different sizes (width and length) available as well.

 

Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions, comments and photos.

A Boner....what you described sounds somewhat on the same vein of what I envision, but I don't think I'd be looking to quite go as far as it almost becoming a unibody. My idea though would be an un-channeled '23 T, but the floorboards might be as low as the bottom of the frame rails to add leg room by increasing the vertical height from floor to the upper, side edge of the body. Seems a '23 could have more of a "normal" seating position that way...... seat cushion a reasonable distance off the floor without looking "perched" on top of the car.

Marty....I do have a question of you. Do you "deep clean" your shop every time before taking photos or is your shop actually that clean all the time? Maybe your shop is way bigger than your photos suggest, but to me a well organized shop, especially a smaller one, makes sense. My shop is messy for sure, but if it were bigger it would just be a bigger mess.

Moriarity....what gauge steel did you use?

Lynn

 

Before I retired from the chassis business I was getting my Model A perimeters from a supplier that was bending flat 10 gauge into the U channel shape then welding in the 4 th side/boxing plates. When finish ground they were a good looking rail.

 

I should have said, uni-frame, with the separate body mounted on top. Tube or formed side rails, with formed sheet metal instead of normal tube crossmembers. The back of the seat pan can actually be an inch or two below the bottom of the frame rails!

 

With that much curve, it may be worth it to get side plates cut from flat plate and form the top and bottom the the curves needed.
Consider you need very good fixtures to hold form or it will go every direction on you as the heat from welding is applied

Pie cutting tube and welding up the seams is an option but I don't personally trust it on a frame as any welds with light penetration is a very weak area, and the "heat banana" will still raise its ugly head.

I like your plan on taller square tubing where it holds its shape on 3 sides then gets the 4th side trimmed and welded up.

Do you have a shop press to take the distortion and twist out?

Finding a local shop that can form square tubing would be ideal.

OR, channel the body and make the frame as angular as it needs to be

 

Why use sheet? tubing gets you 80% the way there, @SamIyam and I have both done them out of 5" and 6" tubing. A search will get you the links

 

I think I understand what you're describing. I thought I had a photo in my computer of a car constructed in the manner you describe, but I couldn't find it or maybe never saved it when I saw it. If memory serves, it was a high-dollar looking car that wouldn't exactly fit into the HAMB criteria.

gene....FWIW, I'm not referring to making tubing, I'm talking about building C-channel frame rails from sheet metal cut to the sweeping shape I have in mind. As a general idea example, think of the side profile of a '32 or '34 Ford frame.

Lynn

 

Well then, that is different.

Metalshapes
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-unibody-roadster-dissected.331971/

Samiyam, the Rafter project

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/building-a-32-style-frame-for-the-rafter-project.305273/

My Strawshop Sedan

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/strawshop-sedan-model-a-build-thread.842446/

 

At what point does sheet become plate?

 

CAD designed four four piece rails would be the ultimate in flexibility but hardly traditional.

 

Interesting question. I also am interested in seeing some T bucket frames with a frame sweep [front and back] to get it down low with floor attached to the bottoms of the rails for a super low seating position. I have the front 1/2 of an early 20s T, touring.

 

My Brown & Sharp sheet gage goes to #O (5/16)... Seems a little heavy for sheet but........

LynnW

 

I believe steel (1018) sheet is mostly cold rolled up to around 10 or 11ga. Plate (A36) is almost always hot rolled.

 

Miller rails were hand hammered over a very large n heavy buck from sheet steel. Meyer Stevens(I think) did his rails by hand also, although I don't know if they were multi-piece.
In the late 70's->early 80's(?), before all kinds of 32 ford rails were stamped out, about the time that front n rear "patch" rails were being stamped out, there was a guy building 4-piece plate/sheet steel welded 32 ford rails. IIRC, he branched out into other makes also. He also designed some really decent ifs n irs suspensions to go along w/his rails. There were a few articles written on him, + he advertised in SR, among others. What I do remember is, he caught nothing but mockery n flack for having the audacity to weld up rails, as "everyone knows" that welded rails can't be as good as stamped rails. I'll be dipped iffen I can remember his name. I always hoped he would do well, as his stuff was well thought out.
When the "craze" of making your own welded 32 rails was popular few yrs prior to the plandemic, there was a guy in southern mn(iirc), who tried to market some. They were priced very fairly, looked decent actually, had the right curves, et-al, - obviously not stamped - but seemed decent quality for the price/effort. Don't think they took off, as I haven't seen them anywheres since. I also seem to remember he posted on the hamb when he did his 1st set, on one of the"build your own" threads - don't know which one.
Go for it, Lynn. I'll watch... .
Marcus...

 

Lynn, I am selective with the photography, try to shoot in the cleanest part of the shop.

 

The first individual fabricating ‘32 frame rails was Mike Martens out of Mendota, IL.
Here’s a screenshot of a post I made two years ago-

 

@Fordors i have one of them Martens frames and they are heavy duty .
My buddy Bill at the original Roadster shop made a form to bang or hammer in the profile of 32 frame rails. The frame rails were made out of 4 pieces and welded up in a jig . Each of the frames had hand formed 32 profiled edge. So each frame was made out of flat plate or sheets.
With new technology a CNC laser or plasma cutter could zip out rails in no time

 

Yes @continentaljohn , Martens built a good strong, decent reproduction of Deuce rails and he also branched out to include ‘33-‘34 frames.
My wife’s cousin has a ‘33 pickup running a 427/400 tri-power engine with a T-400 on a Martens frame.
Martens and another Illinois rodder were forerunners in the industry, John Brown made very early fiberglass Deuce Roadster bodies.

 

Frame under my avatar. Broke 10 GA. with 1" radius on the bottom to simulate a rolled pan. Fabricated kick ups.