I know the old 49-52 Chevys pretty well, but not so much the same era Mercs! Looking for input as to how YOU framed YOURS, with pictures if possible. I know Left-turn here on the HAMB uses mid 80s Oldsmobile 88s and grafts the Merc bodies onto the GM floorpan and perimeter frame, keeping about half the firewall and all the GM running gear, pedals, etc. From what I've seen of the stock 49-51 Merc frames, they're pretty sturdy looking, but of course they lack things like modern V8 mounts, disc brakes, etc. All things that can easily be ADDED, so that's not a big deal. But...what OTHER options have you all used? I'm thinking a second generation Camaro/Firebird subframe and rear axle could be added to the stock Merc frame as an affordable means of obtaining the drivetrain, sterring, brakes and rear axle combination I'm after. Has anyone done THIS swap?? Motorvation will be (yeah I know...YAWN) a 350 Chevy with a TH-350 automatic for sure...I have them and they're in perfect running order. Great motor for a mild custom DRIVER anyway! Is there some reason NOT to go with the front-steer F-body subframe? Show me what's under YOUR Merc...especially if it's subframed!! (Sorry Kevin...your project completely convinced me NOT to go with Ford or Lincoln running gear! ) Thanks guys!
I saw a camaro subframe under one not too long ago, it was wide. too wide. you have to have stupid offset wheels to get clearance down low. never done it myself, just my observation
According to the Merc manual the front tread width was 58.5" and the rear tread width was 60.0" if that helps you any.
all mercs i know with camaro sub frame no ploblems sbc best way to go with a custom but its your car do what you like the hell with the rest
There's a guy on here, I can't remember his name, but he's got an entire website dedicated to his Merc build up. Hopefully he'll chime in here with some suggestions for you. He basically took a running late 80's/early 90's Lincoln Town car, took the body off, and put a Merc body on it. Obviously its not that simple, but I'm just saying what the basic idea of his build is. I read through the site, and he said that he was amazed at how everything lined up fairly well, AND he got to keep it with a Ford based drivetrain and frame, with the convenience of some modern touches as far as suspension goes. P.S. He lives in Royal Oak, Michigan too, so he's fairly local to you.
I've been out to see left-turn's swaps. I wouldn't go any other way. Plan on doing it myself. Looks almost factory and in the end way less work than a subframe when you consider that you would have to plumb lines, figure out master cylinder/pedals, fuel lines, motor mounts, etc on top of grafting the subframe (if you could find one that was a good fit). Just my thoughts. Take um or leave um.
Well, I just found pics of a 51 with a front steer Firebird subframe and a 454 Chevy...not the best pics in the world, but I lightened them up a little to try and see the detail better. Doesn't look like a bad fit overall.
That's Kevin (Mercman1951)...I know him and his car and it's crafted EXTREMELY well, but I don't want to go that way myself. I have a complete donor vehicle with a solid subframe, 10 bolt 3.42:1 posi rear axle and perfectly running drivetrain already...I'd like to use as much of that car as possible to keep costs down and simplify the whole deal.
I kept the stock frame, power by a 460 Ford and C-6. Short springs and lowered spring pockets. 4 1/2 blocks in rear. I see no reason to clip one, but thats just me. Mine drives very well, the wife took it to work today (70 mile RT) and raining hard. It has wipers LOL........OLDBEET
Are you using the stock rear axle and front drum brakes on yours? The stock frames certainly look sturdy enough to hold a modern V8, but this project calls for power steering, power disc brakes, automatic, etc...so I see a donor vehicle as the best (simplest and most affordable) way to go for me...unless adding that stuff to the stock frame can be done easily at a low cost?
Stock drums, Granada rear(2 inches too narrow) No power steering but really dosen't need it. Wife is 5'2", she can drive it.........OLDBEET
It will work Greg- any Firebird or Camaro 81 and older sub and rear axle...yes if narrowed three inches it is better but it can be done stock width and it fits the rails at the splice nicely......... Radiator cradle is gonna need a knotch[powerbox] and possibly a smaller radiator. I used a 58 59 chevy truck radiator that was taller and narrower- also its rounded tank looks better than a crossflow will....
Street Rod engineering makes a weld in/bolt in front clip that we have used 5 times at the South Austin Speed Shop. Also, we have used a Art Morrison rear clip. The SRE clip works great. Call 512-693-7277 and ask for Charlie...he'll bend your ear about merc frames. If you wanna go full custom, we have a blue print for a frame that hosts a 500hp BB. dp
I honestly don't know why so many people have to clip these cars, mine was rebuilt, addapted power steering, disc brakes are availible that bolt to dropped spindles, and modified lower A-arms to accept bags. it lays on the ground, drives like a dream. Why clip it, it's an independent suspension already. I say beef up the frame in some spots by boxing it and 4 link the rear....done deal.
Thanks, Kenny...I was wondering about a possible radiator fit issue. The picture above of the blue 51, and seeing Kevin's 51 in person made it kinda obvious to me that a downflow radiator might be the best fit. Thanks for the tip on the Chevy truck one! (I can get one of those cheap around here!)
I have worked on many mercs and any of the rear steer camaro or nova subs have been used but push the wheels out a little too far. a drum rear steer is 1 1/2 inches narrower then a disk. i will only use a jag front under a merc now just because of the way it goes in with out cutting too much out and fighting with rehanging the front sheetmetal. jag also has a rack, 4 piston calipers and can be bought cheaper then a gm clip. parts are also cheaper to rebuild a jag then gm clip
Okay, I'll pipe up and throw in my 2 cents: If I had to do it all over again, would I? Yes. Would I do it different? Yes. Would it be cheaper? Probably not. The worst part about doing a full frame swap (at least how I did it) was that you have to make so many parts that don't exist, which takes a lot of time. I still need to fab up something to hold my front end up- you can't use the core support off the doner car or the Merc. The best part for a full ch***is swap is the cost factor. It may be the cheapest way to go if you get your doner car cheap...but I've had to purchase some specialized tools, make things, buy a lot of sheetmetal and mig wire...stuff that adds up. In the second pic of that blue Merc...see all that stuff missing under there? You have to make it- or modify the stock stuff extensively. Engine setback (or lack therof) has become a challenge for me in my case. Plenty of room between the firewall/engine, not so much room up where you need it by the radiator. I can make it work though. Check it out here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111911 From what I have seen, particularly with Lefturn's rides, is that the GM ch***is is unfortunatly more of a drop in. I had way more patching to do in the trunk and floorpans than he seems to do. (Thanks Marc!) There were some key benefits to going the route I went with the Lincoln, but I'll say it's not as smooth of a choice as the GM swap. You can retain the desireable GM column, for instance. That being said, I wouldn't have done one myself - still. I wanted to stay all Ford. I'll admit though, my direction has changed a bit from my original plans to keep it fuel injected as well, which was one of my reasons for picking the Lincoln doner in the first place, and I happened upon a crate engine along the way. What I would have done, is spend the money to upgrade the factory ch***is, and then drop in a 460 like Oldbeet did. I'm kicking myself here, because I have had a 460 and C-6 laying around for almost 7 years now and I have nothing to put it in. You may say it would cost way more, but in reality, it's taken me many years to even get to this point...time I could have spent saving cash...and the upgrade would have taken weeks, not years. While I have seen several subframed Mercs in my time, I tend to shy away from this practice. Unless you really know what you are doing, (and are an accomplished welder - which I am not by any means) it's something best left to someone else for me. Take a look at CharlieLed's- it looks like it grew there. I don't think I would be able to pull that off. I agree with those who say to keep the stock frame. It's plenty beefy and there are more and more companies making upgrade parts for it now that didn't exist a few years ago (affordably anyways). Now, if your floors and rockers are swiss cheese, that's another potential reason to do a full ch***is/floor swap. In the end, its up to you, your time, skills and budget. What works for me may not work for the next fella.
I knew you'd have wise words, Kev! We'll have to get together soon and talk at greater length over a few beers!
This Merc frame project is my first but I did spend quite a bit of time on the research before the cutting torch was lit off. I was a little concerned about the GM hydro-formed frame section from the Corvette but as it worked out the fully boxed frame opened up like a banana and wrapped around the Merc frame like a glove. One of the driving factors for me was performance and reliability...when I retire in a couple years this Merc is hittin' the highway and I don't intend to spend a lot of time laying under it on the side of the road. I also didn't want to channel the car because that takes up so much interior space. With a subframe you can set the main section of the frame at the exact height that you want the car to sit...in my case it's 4-1/2 inches. Now I can drop it down to the ground or I can raise it to the stock Merc height with the shockwaves. As for the comments about the stock front suspension...this is Ford's first attempt at an IFS, it is HEAVY and not something I want to maintain or to drive. I guess I am not as traditional as others...give me the ol skool body style but what's under the body has to perform better than what Henry had to offer over 50 years ago.
I agree wholeheartedly with you...I wanted the modern reliablilty too, but some folks on here have shoestring budgets (myself included). I think upgrading the stock stuff is the most cost effective, least time consuming route to take- unless you're good at ch***is fab work and stumble on to a $500 2004 Corvette. LOL... I guess with these types of things it all boils down to time, talent, and $$$... Keep us updated...I always enjoy your progress pics. Such great execution. And inspiration!
Here is my 50.I channeled it over a 78 Olds Delta 88 pan/ch***is.The track is wider than a stock Merc. I dont really like how it looks in front,and the tires rub the fenders when turned hard.It does ride and stop great.
I hear ya, Charlie...I'm hoping to at least upgrade to 70s technology!! Mazdaslam...you car looks pretty damn cool to me!!!
Where are the adapted power steering and disc brakes from? i'm keeping the stock frame on mine but don't know where to find those two things. thanks
Thanks! Ya know,its just some things really bother me about the swap but,I think the good things out weigh the bad.What ever you do,it is a compromise.
power steering - jamco..but they will bend you over...like 600 bucks without the box disks -- fatman for spindles, or jamco...for ball joints..oh yeah..that's only gonna run you 2000.. but eh..that's pocket change for most of us..right?? haha. fat..good luck with your project whichever way you do it..if you need affordable parts..let me know..i got a whole garage full. tok
FatHack My son and I loved the idea of using stock frame, suspension, caddy or olds engine. Also the way CharlieLed is doing it would be fantastic. However, within our budget, (can't spend tons of $$ other projects to do) time frame, (wanted a Merc for 45 years) and the way we are going to use the Merc (drive, handle and brake well) Subframe met all of our criteria. If you go with a small block, the rear steer Nova narrowed 1 1/2" works very well. Use a 70's dodge truck radiator. Big block will need a front steer as there is little clearance with rear steer and exhaust manifolds. Oh, and you have to use a right side dipstick block. I think it would be worth your while to buy Tommy Steadman's how to install a Nova clip in a Merc. You can get it at Mercuryland for $44.95. Ol Blue PS We used a 67-68 GTO rear axle ***embly and it just fit perfectly.
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