Technical Freddie's Latest ...

How many more pistons do you like,,,,,less than half ?
You’re doing good,,,,don’t stop now .

Tommy

 

Hi Everyone we made it to Wednesday ! Alright ! Yesterday #1 did not want to come out so after rapping quite heavily and almost loosing the cylinder wall to a SawsAll due to a shadow from working deep in the cylinder I know now that when a piston is stuck deep WORK THE SawsAll From the bottom of the block and use enough lighting positioned for NO SHADOWS . Oh what a slice . So I stopped and before going home sprayed more DeepCreep ,went home , came back today working the piston back and forth with wood and a br*** hammer then when loose enough pounded it out the bottom with the wood and br*** hammer . I like Budget 36's method with air chisel and yes you can do it that way with a thick slice of a hickory branch with a relief cut in it for the piston done . I admit I do fear rattling this block to much but I bet the air chisel method also clears out the coolant p***ages well . If you look at the wrist pin area it's solid rust muck and keeps picking up more as it moves through the cylinder so got tighter and tighter yesterday . I've come to call the rods and ***emblies lil monsters ha sure have acted like it tenacious little things . So I will continue with cylinders 5-8 then we can remove the cam and 12 froze lifters . Does anyone know how to set lifter bores sleeves ? Is Bronze 415 or 450 the material to use ? Should they be treated and how am I going to get the cam out ? The holesaw method just may be a way . Any suggestions for a super froze block ? No chemicals or heat methods . Have a good day and Thank You

 

Is there a core plug behind the cam, like a Chevy V8?

 

Ok less than an hour this is #7

 

Well sir we have a issue here ... cars have personalities.
My name is Fred. It was years until I was 20 years old and saw my birth certificate showed Fred.
I lived my life before that with the name of Freddie. Was then I saw my birth certificate and my real name.

Ya all wonder why your mother calls you Freddie? When your name is legally Fred?
Freddie ****s ... you drop that name and your build will run faster then any other option ... Fred will work.

 

Haven't seen one yet but I sure would like to fill the oil p***ages going to the cam with penetrant and let it sit for a couple weeks . I can't tell on Flo either cause Flo's cavity has a nice still healthy film of oil and moly and not going to disturb that so thinking since oil pump is out now I invest in a can of Kroil and load one of those hand pumps from Harbor Freight ( got a new one hanging on a door ) and pump up the cam and lifters . From the looks of the 4 lifters I was able to remove the oil galley got filled with moisture vapor cause we all know after a rain sun comes out and I'm just picturing all this bad science in my head and reversing the process that's been created so filling up p***ages with Kroil makes alot of sense to me and banging and chipping on a dry cam well I'm not that insane just insane enough to wanna open up Freddie on the highway and go man go .

 

Got 3 ,man just sprayed more Deep Creep on both engines and Flo looking real fine indeed while Freddie's getting there fast . After 3rd then it's a chess move for the cam and lifters . Flo just needs 5 studs out so using penetrant and she can sit for another couple weeks . Copper gasket set and a carb and battery . Chain her to a tree and start her up Lol

 

When Freddie can do 80 + on open highway for 2 hours I will get him plates saying FASTFRED

 

Like to help you online for now if you'd like just start by spraying the head bolts or oil can with Kroil or spray with Deep Creep

 

Hi Budget36 hope your day is good ! Ah ok this is the plug you are mentioning correct ?

 

Hi Everyone I wasn't going to Post on Freddie's 3 remaining cylinders but the First Catch of The Day did not come easy and that is cylinder #8 . Looks don't mean a thing I've done penetrating oil since May and the skirts here on 8 are mostly dry with cake like substance and I got some oil into the rings area but honestly without collapsing the pistons I would not have gotten these pistons out . Melted pistons come out easier than this cause there is no adhesion and yes low adhesion here also just rings area but the thickness of rust crude that builds up just squeezes the cylinder and piston together so I do know that after #8 I have no cylinder wall cracks or otherwise . If Freddie wasn't a stock bore and had gotten this far into the project I would have tried the air chisel but these are so bad I believe I still would have had to slice a coupon out of the skirt and weaken the pin bosses . It's just to much muck to air chisel out intact . #8 here did not even want to give up a coupon took me 1 1/2 hours of handsawing and that was after the SawsAll and being cautious so CE #8 was set at bottom dead . I'm also thinking on the next engine to drill into the top I of the piston with a 1/8" bit to reach into the ring groove areas for oil soakage at beginning of project . Bottom ring well I'm with my coupon slice process for a low risk . Also what if you got a sleeve in an early vintage motor and you end up pounding it loose ? There goes more repair so easier and safer for me to go with my coupon slice . Funny when we were kids in high school we used to really need at the one who had melted a slug in the hole . Then it was funny watch your friend in the garage for a month trying to save his Wedge or Y or Rat motor . Ain't funny no more now it's save it or your project goes in the back 40 . Here in SoCal it's the s**** yard . Well it's lunch now and see about starting on #5 or 6 . Have a swell afternoon

 

Just to give an idea of what a Ford Flathead V8 has ' Not Going For It ' just look at what is surely a Casting Stress Area on Freddie's exhaust port outer wall on Cylinder 6 . Yes it's inside the water jacket behind the water pump . Then again it may be an overhwat crack in need of brazing so now also going to pressure test Freddie's coolant cavity . In 1932 when Henry started production after investing $650 million into the V8 project only one out of a hundred Flathead V8 block castings actually rolled off the ***embly line . So am I cautious and yes worth every penny and hour to me . Besides I just slammed my calcium crippled thumb with the 4 pound sledge and it really crunched and now thumb really moves great . Where else you get such A1 physical therapy . Great day to all , I'm starting #6 now and thank you

 

Exhaust port outer wall #6 behind water pump .

 

So its out with #5 and tomorrow will take out the last one #6 . Did #5 in an hour . No Saws All just drilled and cut out coupon and went for it without collapsing the pin bosses . Very risky but no dull clangs just full rings still so easy Friday is tomorrow . Have a nice evening and thank you it's good to share this with you .

 

Actually I’m not sure. I thought there might be a core/freeze plug behind the cam.
That looks pretty close to the crank so I don’t think so.

 

Ok stuck it out for the final cylinder . #6 is now out !! So Friday is on the cam and lifters . If no go then will load oil galleys with penetrant , let it set in for a couple weeks and get back to working on Flo . Everyone have a nice weekend and thank you for your interest , support and knowledge

 

Hey Mike,,,,budget,

Here is what the back side of the area looks like on a Flathead .
The cover plate covers the oil pump drive,,,,it’s an idler gear mounted on a shaft and the idler drives the pump .
Here are some pics .
Oh yeah,,,,the cam has a small gear on each end,,,,the front drives the distributor,,the rear the oil pump .

Tommy

 

Thanks Tommy. I’ve only had 3FHs and only took one apart many years ago. I took the aggressive approach on it

 

Hi , the plug I shown picture of is located on the blocks front face above the camshaft . The area shown in picture is of the timing set cavity and that is the cam after removing the distributor drive gear that Tommy is mentioning . Was hoping to load that oil galley plug with penetrant to oil up the lifters and cam but looks like the tube just feeds the mains and crank . So that will just make a mess that leads me to nowhere . So back to the salt mines spraying and tapping on cam and lifters . I'm thinking quickest way for removal is to just section out the cam between the bearings with an angle grinder ( if it will fit in the valley ) take it out in two pieces then cave in the remaining of what's stuck in the cam bearing bosses .

 

Hi Everyone , now for an overview and revisions I will make on the processes done on the next solidified flathead . I consider Budget 36 air chisel process as s choice of pushing out the pistons after collapsing them . So in looking at all the gouging I did to remove rods in beginning of Freddie's teardown I had changed the process to include the piston coming out with the rod attached . I found that on the first rod extracted I did alot of gouging with the die grinder and still had to collapse the pistons carc*** as it was still fully cemented in the cylinder so upon taking the piston/rod ***y out as a unit I saved 2-4 hrs per cylinder . Ha what was first rod 6 or 11 hrs man what a difference the last few took 56 minutes to 2 hrs max . Yes I think that beheading the piston by drilling holes then chisel out the top and as much of the upper ring area and relieving stubborn areas with the SawsAll with a 10 tooth blade and relieving stress at the pin bosses allowing piston to be collapsed inward with a chisel then cutting out a coupon and chiseling it out then if you want use Budget 36 air chisel method and work circular around the piston carc*** and out the bottom is the way to go . Do use a cold chisel as these will not crack the cylinder as a machinists or hardened chisels may . Yes they will bend just bend them back with the 4 lb sledgehammer that your using on this and the 1/4" ,3/8" and 1/2" made it thru the job or you can cave in the pistons with an air chisel set on low . We ain't doin front ends here so easy does it . The coupon after carefully slicing thru the upper and lower rings will come out some in one piece others in 2-3 pieces . This process I did makes a solidified block manageable as far as risk goes on cracking and so yes for efficiency I would take piston/rod ***embly and utilize air chisel . This engine has been penetrating since May lots of tapping with polyurethane hammers , dead blow hammers . Br*** hammers , 5/8" stainless rod and the 4 lb sledge . So yes it's simple now an hour per cylinder AFTER months of penetrating and tapping . That can probably get cut down to 2 months but safe is sane and some guys are happy they waited 6 months and I'm one of them . The engine gives you what it wants to give you and WHEN it wants to give it to you . Example is today Freddie gave up two lifters one easy now from soaking for so long and the other had to work it back and forth . May have cracked somewhere so I'm going to cut the cam out with something so I can hopefully work the other lifters back and forth . Angle grinder doesn't fit in valley , a Dremel is insanity and so is an open hacksaw but guess what I'm gonna use ! Those open hacksaws and patience have always done the job so here goes ....
Everyone have a nice weekend and it's been slot of fun and we're not done yet
Keep your foot in it .

 

Also forgot Very Important is on #2 and #7 be watchful of bottom of piston skirt hitting the center beam so slice the skirt in two locations and chip out the bottom of piston where its going to hit the beam at and pistons will come out without damaging the center beam . If you crack that center beam you can learn how to apply heat braze and cool down and cross your fingers till you open it up on your favorite road

 

Couldn't resist ...

 

Hi Everyone , hope all are well and my eastern state friends are staying warm and all are healthy . So the other day I cut the other end of half a cam about halfway thru then got a long prybar and it broke apart easy enough so then went for the lifters some more but all that's coming out is the two faces of the lifters and the lifter body the cylindrical part it rusted and to far gone so next I'm going to hacksaw some coupons out óf them and attempt to collapse but I can tell you right now the lifter bores themselves are going to have cavities cause some of the ones I was able to remove have slight cavities . There is a risk of oil pressure dropping if there are too many cavities in the lifter bores walls . They aren't deep maybe a 64th deep or so but so many pockmarks . So it best I sleeve the lifter bores but still have to remove what I can . Lifter bores can be sleeved with Bronze 415 or 450 I forget which and so this is a lengthy setback for the 32 Tudor project so as I ramp up my own production and inventory of Bronze Lifter Bore Insert Sleeves ( might as well make a couple buckets full on the first run for all who need ) I will return to Flo as the broken head bolts on that motor have been soaking for a couple weeks so if you would like please go to the thread MEET FLO . Thank you Everyone and have a nice evening .

 

... and looking at last picture those lifters are pitted bad and you can see the lower one actually did move a little then just solidified and stuck . Also Flo's thread is Meet Flo ! . Thank you

 

The lifter bores in a Flathead are not pressurized,,,,they only received splash lubrication .
If they are still solid and not missing any large chunks ,,,they are probably okay .
Time and a good eye will tell for sure .

Tommy

 

Hmm I guess what's making me think they would effect oil pressure is the small holes in the lifters . Those holes must be for a relief so the oil can circulate . More Henry Ford Hot Rod engineering

 

I stripped a couple of engines like this.
A br*** drift will knock the lifters out.
Be careful (you are, I know) when removing the pistons as you can break the cylinder walls quite easily. I did.
Maybe miraculously, both of my engines are back up and running, both with their original cams and some of the original lifters.
The lifter bores ought to be ok. They shouldn't need sleeving. I had to fit liners to all cylinders on both of my engines.
I made videos showing both of the teardowns and rebuilds.
My motors were very similar to yours.
Check the link in my signature and look for the Ol 59 Flatty and Crusty Flatty playlists.

Mart.

 

No it won't

 

When you have some time please do read the complete threads on Freddie and Flo . I was surprised at the poor shape of Flo's head bolts compared with the rest of the engine . As for Freddie please look at condition of lifters , pitted and crumbling

 

Your "No it won't" comment, I presume refers to using a br*** drift to knock the lifters out.
All I can say is "It worked for me".
Yours must be a lot worse than mine were.
I am surprised you can cut the lifter bodies, I thought they were hard.
As the cam has been removed, can the lifters be driven downwards with a suitable sized socket?
There is no oil supply to the lifter bores, as the lifters are not hydraulic.
While damage to the bores should be avoided, they might be tolerant of some scoring. As long as the lifter is well supported and does not want to to rock in the bore.

Too late for you now, but I found that on some pistons it was easy to knock the tops clean off with some heavy blows from underneath. If the skirts are split, once the tops are off the pistons will move much more easily and not split the bore. The one where I managed to split the bore did not have the top taken fully off. That was a lesson learnt for me.

Do you intend to rebore? If so what size do you think the bores will have to go to to clear up? The one nick in the bore in the photo does look quite deep.

Good luck with it. Hopefully you will end up with a salvageable block and set of rods.

Mart.