Technical Freeing up stuck mopar 413

Will WD40 flow thru the engine via the oil pump. Wasnt sure if the pump would flow thin fluid. Also what is stronger torque, the starter motor or a pipe and breaker bar on the front of the crank. Any other tips?

 

Well, if it was mine, I'd first hafta take it apart. Jack E/NJ

 

Agreed. If it is stuck that tight, pull it apart. Most of the time when you get one unstuck... It's going to smoke, knock or both. It is usually rust in the cylinders causing it to be stuck from the rings rusting to the walls.

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Man, if you’re trying to free a stuck engine, gentle patience is the way to proceed. You might want to pull the heads to see how bad the cylinders are. If you’re asking which has more torque, you’re going down the wrong path and will end up busting the **** out of rings, bending pushrods, etc. If it isn’t rusted badly, fill the cylinders with a 50/50 mix of trans fluid and acetone and let it sit. After a few days you can try gently moving the crank back and forth with a breaker bar. Don’t force anything and don’t try to use the starter to turn it. If you’re careful and lucky, you might, MIGHT, get away without having to overhaul it. It just depends. It could take weeks to get it loose. You’ve got to be patient or you WILL destroy it for sure. Keep in mind that the reason a car was parked way back when is because the engine might have already been toast.


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Fill the cylinders with 50/50 acetone and ATF and let it soak a few weeks, then GENTLY rock the crank back and forth with a breaker bar...if it breaks loose fairly easily and makes two full revolutions clockwise and doesn't feel TOO ROUGH OR "CATCHY" you MIGHT get LUCKY and be able to start it....you could also damage a lot of components that otherwise could have been saved if you had dis***embled it ....good luck and let us know how it turns out!

 

All of the above. But, for the record you get the best mechanical advantage prying against the flywheel teeth with a big screwdriver or small prybar.

 

The reason I need to turn it over it it's a 61 Chrysler and the torque converter is bolted to the crank, no flex plate. Don't want to pull engine and ******, too heavy and long. Heads are off and cam disconnected. Been soaking for a long time. Can't get at flywheel teeth. So back to the original question, can I pump thin fluid thru the engine to get to the main and rod bearings?

 

I guess you are going to use a priming rod for the oil pump, and spin the pump with a drill motor, right? If that is the case then yes the pump will move that thin of a fluid. Now I have to ask this question. What do you think you are going to accomplish by doing this?

In a vast majority of the cases the reason the motor is stuck in the first place is the rings are stuck ( for lack of a better word) to the cylinder walls. Moving WD40 or any other fluid thru the pump is not going to really help in that case.

 

"Heads are off"
So you can see the cylinders? How do they look? Where was it stored, and how long have the heads been off?
I'm guessing it is more likely rings or even piston/cylinder than bearings.

I wish I had 413.

 

The car was in a garage for 30 years. Cylinders look good, oily no rust. Bearings have alot more surface area then the rings. If they get gunked up then its stuck. The timing chain was frozen solid. Yes to the priming rod.

 

Timing chain frozen solid? I'm not sure I understand what that means. And why can't you get at the flywheel teeth? Pull the starter off and there they are. Or if you're underneath it and have the dust cover pulled off the bottom of the bellhousing you should also have the flywheel teeth right in front of you.

 

John, If you think that is what is going on then just do it. One thing is for sure you are not going to hurt anything that way. I think maybe Marvel Mystery Oil might be better but I have no solid reason for that. it is a place to start and if that is in fact not the problem you have at least removed one thing it could be.

 

If everything is still in the car and you can see the cylinders are “clean” maybe its got more to do with the ****** not allowing the motor to turn over freely...? Pull the motor and ****** it’s prob less screwing around, then you can seperate the 2 and reallly see whats going on. Be sure to let us all know

 

Back in my super broke teenage years I let water get in an engine and rust up. I was able to identify the offending cylinder and I tried everything to no avail. I eventually pulled the intake and the head on the offending side.
I put a wood block on top of the piston, wrapped a chain around the engine and frame of the truck and used a small hydraulic bottle jack between the piston and the chain. I put some pressure on it and eventually got he piston to move a bit, enough to clean the rust up.
I put the engine back together. I was so broke I even re-used the head gasket. I was able to get the truck up and running. I drove it for about 10 years after that.

A prybar against the flywheel teeth is your best bet. Try to rock it back and forth and "tease" it free instead of going King Kong on it.

Good luck
Bobby

 

Bobby,you beat me to it, if you want to turn a stuck engine, build a bracket , using long bolts or all thread in the head bolt holes, bridge a pice of channel iron, and use a small jack. It will move or break. Bones

 

I was given a DZ 302 that had been pulled from a 53 Ford pickup. It had sat on the ground covered by an old rug. I took it home and put it on an engine stand and pulled the heads. It was stuck. I poured atf and acetone and let it set for a month. Then slowly started working it to get it to turn. Take your time and it will break free.

 

I'm 62 and through all these years I never encountered "Stuck Bearings" There are such dissimilar metals involved that it just doesn't happen. Go soak that thing in ATF and Acetone and just be patient. It will come loose.

 

Since the heads are off and its a v engine, only a small percentage of the piston will see liquid. Pulling the engine and ****** wont help me. This is an old school torque converter that is bolted to the crank. Even when they are out of the car, the crank wont just drop out releasing the crank. Bellhousing wraps the flywheel, no bottom cover, sure the starer can be removed but that wont provide leverage for the bar. Frozen timing chain means there was no flex, solid. The old oil dried and was like glue. Thats what iam thiking about the bearings too. I will try the acetone thing and soak it. Is atf similar to marvell mystery oil?

 

Yes, ATF is similar to Marvel Mystery oil in that it has a lot of detergents in it.

 

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. obviously common motor knowledge is lost on you

 

What you need to do is: (1) Drain fluids first so you don't make a mess when you pull the motor/trans. (2) Yes, pull motor/trans. You have no other choice. (3) Unbolt the trans from the motor, that way you can use the starter ring on the torque converter to help turn the motor over. (4) If for some reason that doesn't work, flip the motor over (that's why you drain the fluids first), remove the pan, mark the rod caps if needed and remove each rod/piston ***embly. Once this is done mark the main caps, remove main caps , pull crank and then you can get to those lousy torque converter bolts. If this is beyond your skill level trade the motor for one that runs. Best of luck on your project

 

get a 383 and you will have a real engine.

 

As mentioned, several times, it is highly unlikely that any bearing is the cause of your problem. If the cylinders are relatively clean and the crank will not turn then you have another problem.
You can separate the engine from the trans and, yes, the converter will stay with the engine. It is possible, with skinny fingers and a looong 5/8 box end wrench to remove the 8 attaching nuts that hold the converter to the crank. You would not be the first to do this. No, it is NOT fun.

.

 

I've encountered several stuck engines like yours...and have known about 5 that came back with no ill results. My TBird 312 was stuck solid...broke it free and it purred like a kitten....no blowby! Most often it's the rings sticking to the cylinder walls. Doesn't take much to make them lock on. Use WD 40 or atf/acetone in the cylinders...get a block of wood and tap the piston tops with a hammer...not hard...just a rap. Go all around and do all 8. Then let it sit....come back a day or two later and do it again. Youre trying to shock free the pistons from the cylinders. You obviously don't have to hit it so hard you damage the piston...just a few taps each. Those vibrations will crack free whatever is holding the rings in place...varnish..etc. Then you try to turn it slowly...forward and back. Keep adding your lubricant/penetrant mixture...get it to the point of rotating a couple times as said...and your golden.

 

This is a ***** on old Mopars I've dealt with it lots of guys here have posted about it before. Hard to avoid taking crank out without torque converter. Chevy and Ford guys think we are crazy every time.

 

Now ***uming that moisture has caused the rings to stick, it'd probably be on the same slanted plane...where you'd put in your atf/acetone mix...sorta let it go where the moisture went before

 

bought a stuck 331 one time. pistons came right out. Cam is stuck solid. It'll take the hot tank to get it out.

 

As said earlier. Just take your time. Pump that oil mixture through there. It will ***ist in freeing anything up (oil p***ages to cam and crank bearings). Pour some into each cylinder (to get it to the rings) and work the engine back and forth gingerly. As some else said "Don't go all King Kong on it" Patience and you will get it to move. I personally would not go tearing the rest of the engine apart just "because".

 

FWIW:
Yup, the atf/acetone mix is good, MMO works too, to loosen things up. Can't hurt to run it through the oil pump, but you'll still get a mess from the oil p***ageways leading to the heads. I dunno, maybe some clown-act used a half-fill of STP/MotorHoney/CastorOil that gummed up, & the mix should help w/softening that up. For the rings/cyls, I'd get some Aero-Kroil & soak the cyl walls & let it puddle above the pistons for a bit. You said the timing chain was frozen - can I ***ume you've already cut that or removed it? 73RR & junkman8888 are right. Pull the mill w/the trans, then remove the trans & bellhousing so's you can get to the bolts, 'cause those seriously **** getting the crank free from the TC, esp when stuck. I discovered& invented new curses for (past) Chry engineers, bean counters, & mgmt that approved that design, when I had to get mine apart. Oh, & get the gallon-sized pail of patience pills, make sure they are the extra-strength long-lasting ones, too. ;( .
Marcus...

 

I am going to pull the engine and convertor. Its bolted to the crank. While i believe in acetone and atf i think it needs to be on a stand turned up so the whole cylinder can soak. Less the 25% of the rings are getting soaked not to mention the pistons that are up.