I have ordered some reproduction friction type shocks for the front of my suicide springed front end. I've been driving the car without shocks while I wait, it rides suprisingly good, but it hits pretty hard when hitting even small bumps (I don't believe it is bumpsteer because I don't feel it in the steering at all,and the car stays straight,even at higher speeds)The car is powered by a 472 cadillac(50 lbs lighter than a BBC 50 more than a SBC). I am wondering if I the friction shocks will be sufficient verses the oil filled piston shocks. I can save the friction type for something else and fab some brackets for the piston type. I certainly like the looks of the friction shocks even though they are reproduction-the type with the plastic discs. Oh.....If I do go with piston type, is there a noticeable difference between attaching them a little ways back on the hairpins verses bolting them out front-The front would look cleaner with them behind the radiator.
I don't think shocks will cure the riding hard problem. Sounds like the suspension is a little stiff. Maybe lower the tire pressure. Just some thoughts.
Well, I'll check the tire pressure, but shocks have to help some, especially since there's none at all now?
Since the axle swings in an arc, the hairpin anchor being the pivot point, the further back on the hairpin you mount the shock the less travel at the shock. That can reduce it's effectiveness. Probably won't be much of an issue as I would assume not a lot of axle travel in the first place. I would think the 'stiffness' of the shock would make a difference in the final ride characteristics. The previous poster's comment about the suspension (spring) being too stiff may be on the mark. Probably a good idea to determine if the spring rate is correct before deciding on the shock specs. Ray
Whatever the spring rate, friction 'shocks' will not soften the ride, will merely dampen 'bounce' by impeding motion.
The actual purpose of shock absorbers is to dampen the oscillations of the springs, and I don't think they are the solution to your specific problem.
Well, thanks for the info on what a shock actually does. I was really wondering more about the performance of friction vs. tube shocks, if friction shocks work or do they just look better. I've got to intall shocks , so I gues I'll try the friction ones that I have ordered and see what happens before I get into buying a whole new spring. I understand the concept of shocks, but I have always been able to improve the ride of a car with new shocks if the old ones were blown-especially on the front. I know they are mostly for bounce, but they are called "shock.....absorbers" hopefully they will help "absorb" a little of the "shock" I am experiencing.
hopefully they will help "absorb" a little of the "shock" No, they increase the amount of motion the chassis gets. The wheel motion is either taken up by the spring, or by moving the chassis. You need a weaker spring and a lighter axle. There is no free lunch. The problem is the usual with rods, they have: 1. very high unsprung weight 2. terrible weight distribution 3. if the shocks are original, they do very little 4. limited suspension travel 5. spring rate for much heavier vehicle A friction shock resists motion in both directions equally, making the ride harsh and control weak. Hydraulics have very little compression damping and ride better. The control is mostly on the rebound side. A shock mounted farther from the wheel moves less, but it's also weaker.
Look is what you think, not what I think. Friction shocks are/were a cheap way for the do-it-yourselfer that couldn't afford real shocks, never have been better as far as performance. I would think buying friction shocks would be cheesy, if they aren't home made, they look, ah, er, .....................cheesy. Whatever the spring rate, friction 'shocks' will not soften the ride, will merely dampen 'bounce' by impeding motion.
why not take a leaf out?Looks like multi leaf ya got on there. Might cure yur stiff ride/bounce. Then you can use whatever shocks you want
It takes a mighty fine friction shock to match the performance of a plain jane tubular shock. friction shock = great looks tubular shock= great performance
Gosh I thought it was on display at the event. How DO you do that in a crowded grass field that is flat as a piece of paper?
This happened at Rock and Race at an drag old track in West salem Ohio. It has this crazy dip and i think he started bouncing and could not stop. Dont worry they are both Ok and one was even drinking margaritas later that day
There is no friction shock that can "match the performance" of any hydraulic shock. The cheap hydraulic ones don't do it as well, and don't last very long.
After being discouraged when I posted a question about adding shocks to the front of my model a (it had none and had a "jolty" ride up front) I was told it wouldn't help, I was told it was ALL in the spring. I said what the hell I've got the "shock absorbers" and I need to "absorb some shock". Well, yesterday I installed a pair of fabricated friction shocks out front, and to my amazement, they do absorb shock! The ride is much improved. I'm sure a perfectly matched spring would help as well, but give some shocks a chance first. I'll post some pics later.
The improved ride is not because they "absorbed shock". What they did: reduce suspension travel (less "bouncy"), and yes, this is better than nothing. However, the disturbance to the chassis ("shock") when a front wheel hits a bump is increased by the friction shock resisting wheel motion, which transfer more of the motion to the chassis. A hydraulic shock has very little effect on bounce, which is why they ride much better. For maximum comfort, the chassis never moves no matter what the wheel does. The most effective way of reducing chassis disturbance on upward wheel motion is: 1. the weakest possible spring 2. unlimited travel 3. zero unsprung weight 4. no shock at all.
I'm sorry this is so difficult for some here. It's that annoying "physics" thing, right? "Shock absorber" is not what they do, or what they are, it's what they call them so that you buy them. "Hydraulic damper" doesn't sell as much. You know, like they call it "health care reform", because "huge rate increase, followed by complete collapse and bankruptcy" doesn't have that magic ring to it?
I totally agree with your second point and actually the first too. The point of my initial question was to find out if friction shocks would be worth my time installing. What i mostly got was... yes ,a physics lesson, I love learning new information and appreciate it, but if anyone ever asks me I'll just tell them that friction shocks helped the ride of my car, without changing the spring. If it didn't ride a little hard it wouldn't be a hot rod, right? I believe a tube shock would help even more. Then I'll give them the physics lesson, and if needed tell them to MOVE to canada if they mention wanting the type of "health-care reform" that was recently being shoved down America's throat, amen.
Let's simply things a bit and then move on to the types of shocks. Imagine a large sedan sitting still. You press down hard on the front bumper and and quickly release. The nose bobs down then returns to where it started (ideally - in the real world you'll have friction in the bushings and a slightly improper damper, but we'll ignore all that). The shock resists motion so as the nose moves down, there is a resistance. The force required to push the nose down is the sum of the spring force and the damping (shock) force. This is why people are saying you'll think the car is stiffer after you add the shock. As the nose moves back, it's the spring force pushing the nose up and the shock is resisting this movement - so its the spring force minus the damping force returning the nose upward. When you have no shock absorber, there is no resistance to motion, and when you release the nose the spring will push it up past its original height, then it will sink below, and continue to oscillate until is settles out. The real world friction in the suspension is acting as a weak friction shock absorber. A friction shock does not care which way the wheel is traveling vs the chassis. It will provide the same resistance in bump as it will in rebound. It also, for the most part, doesn't care how fast the wheel is moving vs. the chassis, so chassis roll and dive (slow) are damped the same as a bump (fast). Hydraulic shocks are generally designed to allow for different damping for bump and rebound and also for fast or slow rates. This allows for a much greater control of the chassis. You can allow some give when hitting a bump while still providing enough damping in roll or dive to keep the chassis level. Therefore, the friction shocks will always be a compromise. If you want to avoid harshness over bumps, you'll likely have to live with some extra body movement in roll and brake dive/acceleration squat. Also, as to your current hard hits over bumps, are you sure you're not hitting the bump stops? If you are hitting the stops, the installation of the dampers may not require a reduced spring rate.
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