Featured Hot Rods From Troubleshooting Wiring to Ignition Hell

Saltflats, what you gave me is the access to knowledge - an education. Very valuable. Now I know what I've got and I'll get rid of it as soon as I can afford a new, standard points distributor and coil. Funny thing is, I've got the wires for a points distributor, bought them back at the beginning of this process when I originally bought a 1970 351W, which I didn't take good care of and it turned into a boat anchor.
And speaking of boat anchors, looks like I'll replace the Holley, too, according to what Rod pointed out. Kinda sets back the timetable a bit but I substitute teach at the local rural school and should be getting my first substantial check in October. That means engine startup might be happening by Thanksgiving.
Rod, the cam is a mildly aggressive R/V cam and my machinist said the compression should be around 9.5 or a little better. I put Edelbrock 1.90 intake aluminum heads and a Performer intake on it, wanting more breathing, more power but pretty close to stock manners. It's a truck. Low-end torque is going to be more useful than soprano-like upper end.

 

Wishing you the very best. I'm in a similar situation. Need to fix an intake and source a carb to get mine back up.
You might shoot for 12-15 initial to start. With the thing reassembled with points you can turn the key on and rotate the dist (crank at the timing you want) back and forth and pinpoint the spot where the points open and spark at the coil wire happens.

 

Thank you for bringing this up, Claymart. I'll be using this to go retro, abandoning the Duraspark II for a nice 1970 points distributor and matching-ohm coil.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/376456895317?

Or

https://www.ebay.com/itm/336096604236?

???

 

@pprather You can paste the whole thing, then delete everything after the question mark and it too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/376456895317
?_skw=used+sbf+points+distributor&
cleans up the link and deletes all the references to your query.

 

See... told you it was a leak at the base of the carb.
Glad you're getting it fingered out.

 

You don't really need an entire FoMoCo distributor. 351W distributors aren't all over eBay the way 302 dist are. Using any FoMoCo points dizzy (302, 351C, 460) you can just swap over everything from the points plate up including the advance mechanism. I've gone back and forth on my stroker 351W between points and a Frankenstein setup using the same distributor. The mashup uses a DS dist guts/HEI module/TFI coil and it has run really well both ways.
Good tutorial on the top of the distributor here

 

First one looks good at $40 and it's for a 351W - bonus. Second one is for a Cleveland and has been fugged with.

 

Neither the distributors for Clevelands nor Modifieds will work with the Windsor. I picked up a nice Mallory Unilite for a Modified about four years ago for a few bucks, not knowing until afterwards that it wasn't for the Windsor. I'm still weighing options and waiting for the weather to cool before going back into the garage to tackle the ignition and carburetion dilemmas. This weekend I'm going to take the multimeter and chase down each of the wires in the ignition to see if somehow I've mis-wired the system. I'll probably pull the carb, too, and take it apart to look for why the pump isn't squirting fuel into the primaries. Even if I just get a stock points distributor and coil for a 1970 351W, that doesn't guarantee it will run, even if I fix or replace the carb. I just need to run the traps on both systems, get to the bottom of all this.
Anybody need that Mallory Unilite? or maybe some nice SBF stainless headers? Got those, too, and can't use them as they don't fit with the Model A frame.

 

Man, First off I admire your stick to it personality. 51 years of waiting to drive anything is a milestone worth celebration! Bravo to that!

But the Ford ignition problems can all be solved via Joe Hunt. It also cleans up the engine bay as only one wire is needed and no external coil junk.

 

Latest update, tested the original coil and it was bad so got a new one from RockAuto. It's good but both the original Ford Duraspark II and aftermarket ICM tested bad, according to the tester lent to me by Saltflats. I think I inadvertently cooked both by turning over the engine without all the ignition wiring hooked up. I'll be ordering my third module later this week. I asked Cory at Rebel Wiring to check my wiring schematic and we believe I've made no mistakes there, so in theory, a new, final module should get me going - finally. If not, I'm tossing that DSII and coil as far as I can and going to a 1970 points ignition. That will mean opening up the can of worms and figuring out how to wire it. I at least have an NOS ignition wiring set that I can use.

 

Good luck hope everything works out. @RodStRace in post 55 described how to wire for points if you go that route. I personally like points ignition systems, yes they require a little more frequent maintenance however electronic distributor ignitions require maintenance also, at 50k the cap and rotor and maybe the coil should be changed IMO.
Funny story I went on a vacation with my mom and dad in the early 80s. They had a Chevy based motor home. I lived in Wyoming Mom and Dad lived in Iowa they picked me up on the way to the west coast. On the way I asked dad if he did the maintenance on the motor home. Yep changed and checked fluids changed plugs, new filters etc etc. How about the ignition I quizzed Dad said he changed plugs and the HEI doesn’t need monkeying with OK says I. On an interstate in Seattle during rush hour the beast quits Nothing. We coast to a safe spot and start diagnosing Fuel check Spark nope pull the cap and don’t see anything at first then we see a small hole burned through the rotor. The engine had a little over 30 k Of course dad didn’t have a cap and rotor like he always carried with a points ignition.
Dan

 

One of the early tests I remember on the Dura-Spark was to turn the ignition on and off. If everything was right, you should get a spart out of the coil wire. I also remember an instructor at a Ford school wacking the vacuum advance with the key on and getting a spark out of the coil wire.

I had a Ford truck that sometimes I would turn the key to on and I would hear a constant spark buzzing in the distributor. Once in a while the engine, a 460, would start by just turning the key on. The module finally failed as I was towing the race car home. The second module lasted as long as I had the truck, maybe another 4 years.

 

Stock distributor with points and condencer and a new coil that works

 

Yes, the obvious next step, but I thought I'd gamble just one more time . . . You know, I think I may have a gambling problem! Also a common sense problem and a few other character flaws, but I've always (eventually) taken good advice from knowledgeable, well-meaning friends, which is what's ultimately going to solve this issue I bet . . .Uh, there I go again.

 

MSD use the Ford Duraspark type pickup coil and reluctor in their HP distributors.
Maybe just use your existing Duraspark distributor/pickup coil, and as suggested above, connect it to a MSD 5 or 6 box for simplicity.

 

Sounding like you sent my tester back to soon.

 

Yeah, the pickups and reluctors were good, it was the TFI or earlier module as discussed here that stank, plus mounting it right on the Dist. Few to no issues in the caps and rotors with the small base and the wide top. I can give them credit there too.
GM's pickups would get the green death in some apps, Mopar ones worked well, too.

 

I had a 76 econoline with 351w, every now and then the ignition module would overheat and quit, wait 15 minutes and it would work ok. Did that two more times and I finally changed the module.
Ran great
then one day I heard a buzzing under the hood, it was the regulator, not sure what was going on.
The next week the wify is driving it and smoke was coming out from under the hood where the regulator lives. She pulled over and ran. Truck burned and fireman prided the hood open to put out the fire. Too late it was toast
My problems were solved!

 

An

Another option I've got to consider, now that I've got a little more cash to invest/waste. I'm kicking myself for not testing that old coil also. Sometimes frustration blocks common sense and doing a thorough job running the traps. Someday (I hope soon) I'll find the solution, get beyond this and this thread will be a valuable resource for the next guy who encounters a similar problem. Thanks to all of you for jumping onboard and lending your wisdom and experience.

 

@Moriarity
Until you have to explain how to service a points dist. to someone who mumbles "lefty, loosey" to themselves when getting gas!

Just looked for a new Tach/Dwell meter and all I found were vintage ones. Fine for those of us who remember them when new, but a hard pill to swallow for young people. No need to remind old= better chance of long life.

Be glad a lot of us were turning wrenches back then and remember how these short-lived systems worked. A banger may have a few quirks and ' don't do's ' but are for the most part pretty self explanatory. The big 3 went thru some generations of stuff before getting pretty reliable. Then those didn't need to be troubleshot, so fixes are less known. Then they got real complex.

 

I remember seeing something about a JEEP (I think) smaller diameter cap DURASPARK conversion somewhere online.

 

I got the third ignition module today, hooked it up and still no spark. I'm going through the wiring schematic slowly, carefully, trying to figure out what's not right.
A - The two-prong plug, marked 4/5 in the schematic, seems to be wired correctly, although the damned schematic shows one wire as blue, the other as red-blue, instead of the wires that are actually on the module being red and white. The red wire checks out as the power wire coming from the IGN or RUN post on the ignition switch. The white wire becomes a purple wire and comes from the START post on the ignition switch. So far, so good. If I put a jumper wire with a light on female slot 4 and turn on the ignition, it lights up when grounded. But the same goes when I connect the light to female slot 5, which makes sense as that's hot during start, too, right? I think that plug 4/5 checks out as wired correctly. It brings power into the ignition module when the key is turned to IGN and to START.
B - Now onto the four-prong plug coming out of the module, marked 1/3/7/8. The schematic shows 1 as green-yellow, but the module wire is green. It shows 3 as orange-yellow, but it is just plain orange. It shows 8 as black-green, but it's just black. It shows 7 as purple-blue, but it's just purple. Whoever labeled this schematic should be horsewhipped, beaten, shot, then pissed on, but that's just my opinion. I've run a green wire from the female 1 to the negative side (marked DEC) of the coil and to the S post on the tachometer. The other three wires (orange, purple and black) connect to another, female plug marked 9/10/11 that goes to a three-pronged male plug coming from the distributor. I can't mis-wire it because the wires are dedicated from plug to plug. No thinking required regarding the wiring, right?
C - So either this third module is also bad, or I've mis-wired somewhere else in the system. I'm going to start at the starter switch. No continuity when off, lights the grounded test lamp when turned to IGN or START. Starter spins the engine when turned to START. Verdict: not the problem.
D- Final conclusion: Duraspark II modules are junk. I still like the distributor and coil, though, as they both check out when tested. I'll try to figure out how to adapt the MSD 5 or 6 box in place of the D2. Thanks to 31 Coupe for the suggestion. If that doesn't work, a points/condenser/coil switch is the fallback. Even I can't screw up that.

 

I followed this schematic 5 years ago, on my 351W, if you want to try something else. GM module was one I had in the spare parts drawer. Mounted on bracket behind the distributor.

 

I went to a lot of trouble to put a Duraspark in my ‘54 and it left me stranded more than any other ignition that I’ve ever owned. It always ran terrible as a bonus. I replaced with a sub-$100 HEI conversion distributor that was flawless for over 15 years. Lit off quicker and ran cleaner. Last I heard it was still working perfectly with almost zero maintenance. Initially I had an odd feeling of shame for putting ugly GM parts on a Ford engine, but every time I wasn’t stuck on the side of the road I felt a little better about it.

 

Remember , we won 2 world wars , and 2 police actions ,using point type ignitions ! So that should be telling you something about dependability !!!

 

I checked on the MSD 6 and the price was ridiculous compared to getting a points distributor and coil. Yup, I'm ordering a 1970 version in the morning. I've gotta put this episode behind me, tune the engine, adjust the AOD, hook up the e-brake and then tend to glass, roof and upholstery over the winter.