alright so this is the Roadster i purchased a few months back. i have been "bettering" it as i can. already added Lincoln front brakes and Ford spoke wheels with new Firestone Champion tires. Being that i plan to drive it up to Daytona in a couple weeks (some 500 miles) i thought i would get some advice on how the front leafs meet the bones... my concern is that it is a single shear connection. i would like to know if it is ok as is or if there is something i can do to better that connection (remember i bought the car like this)... the bolt at least seems to be a grade 8... thank you. Yaril
I know i will get a Flame from ALL the Know it alls here, BUT ...... That is the Worst Type set up i have seen & is very popular with the Crew that likes the LOOONG look on there rod. I wouldnt Ride, Drive, or even want a car with that front set up Driving close to ANYTHING i was driving on the street. I have seen them break. Why can't people just buy a Dropped axle for God's sake ( and the sake of anyone close to the car) Put the axle back UNDER the spring & run Ford perch's & Good shackles !
... Looks good enough for me, if you trailer it. !!! You answered your own question, by questioning it! That 'T' connection looks quite weak to me. Shackle should be connected to two ears coming off the frame. You Might wrap a chain around it so when it snaps off you'll get enough warning to pull over.... ...
.. No, DE SOTO, you are absolutely correct. FUNCTION ALWAYS COMES BEFORE LOOK! Unless it's on yard art. ..
I think you'd be better off with a bracket that comes off the wishbone with tubing to allow the shackle to mount to it. I wouldn't trust two grade 8 bolts to hold a frontend up!
That tab welded on the wishbone isn't strong enough and will fatique sooner or later. Also your perch will shear , change to spring over axle. I like the looks of your setup but it just isn't safe!
Yes,Yes. ditch it, and install parts that won't potentially get ya killed, or worse, maimed. We realize it's a freakin TON of work, but at the end of the day, How much are You worth? Does having 5 didgits at the end of each limb seem like a good idea? Unless You find Yourself laying in bed thinking "I could pick up so many more hot chicks in a wheelchair..." I suggest Ya fix that.
Yep! Just a matter of time til that goes. I could make some suggestions, but none are better than what you've already been told.
thats what i thought. thanks for all the advice guys. this is my first hot rod purchase and the more i study it the more i learn from it. i am with all of you that it needs the axle under the leafs. would you say that for the moment i could better that connection by welding 2 eye tabs to the bones like chaddilac suggested? that way it will have double shear on the shackle? or just a thought, welding a triangle on top of the shackle to the bracket on the bone, this way all the forces are not just on the 1 bolt. this will mean that the shackle on the bone will always be on the bone. thanks for all the advice.
I used small pipe piece on mine, then shackle goes through it, then the pipe has two pieces that are welded from it to the wishbone. I was trying to upload a pic but it ain't working. Here you go. I don't know that this is the best way, but it's strong and it ain't going anywhere. kinda hard to see. I'll take another one when I'm at the shop later and post it.
Tyler, your last suggestion would strengthen the weakest link, if done right. The second "elephant-in-the-room" is the suicide leaf spring arrangement. If any shackle or bolt or main leaf parts company, you got NO steering. Assuming you are creating a shower of sparks as the frame/spring slides along the pavement.
Ask Lucky what he thinks about that set up http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304871&highlight=shear
Russco i saw that post a while back and thats what got me so worried in the first place. pitman, i was just outside looking at it and it is possible to weld 2 triangles (gausets) on each side that will permanently connect the bone's bracket and bone to the shackle tube. this is similar to what chaddilac suggested but going directly to the shackle tube as opposed to running the tube within a tube. i will make a paper mock of what i plan to do and post it for advice. i know it needs to be addressed, i do not trust the shear capabilities of that 1 bolt! thanks again for helping me through this.
alright, here are my cardboard thoughts... this is the triangle it would be cut from 1/4" steel, it can be welded to the bone's bracket and to the shackle itself. therefore the bolt is really not doing anything there but holding it while i go in and weld it. too much perhaps? also thought it could work with 2 triangles... i think either will help. what do you think?
I don't like the kind of front suspension set-up at all. BUT I think your second picture with 2 braces is the best way to fix things. I know spring main leafs don't break to often but! how about going back to a non-reversed eye with a second leaf that extends out over the eye area? Many factory designs had a second leaf that either wraped around the main's eye or extended over it. Your bracing and the spring mod should cover the most likely posiabilties of failure. Steering/suspension failures are NOT fun. In my younger dumber days I had a split bone frame bracket break loose from the frame,floped the old 34 3 window on it's side in a ditch.Didn't hurt me or the car much . But the cause was MY fault as I didn't have the drop fully welded !!
I like your second idea better.... Here are some photos I stole from 3wLarry's build, just for reference/ideas. I believe the Rolling Bones shop built his chassis. Good luck! Malcolm
thank you guys. i too feel that the 2 bracket option looks tougher and will eliminate the possible (inevitable) failure of that 1 bolt. guess ill fab up 4 of those gussets and get to welding them on. i will feel a lot safer putting myself and girlfriend in this car after thats installed.
A lot of guys dont like the spring to the bones set up, i like the look. The two gussets on each bone would help a ton. Could even do something on the wheel side. No matter what you do that set up is not going to be strong enough for alot of the guys on here.
That's better. In fact, those on their own would probably be enough. Remember the loading is trying to rip that tubing downwards off the bone. I'd make 2 gussets as you show, but each extended downwards with a hole that totally surrounds the tube, and if possible tieing in to the existing gussets. If you do as above, it takes all the laoading through well designed and proportioned brackets into the radius arm. As you say, the bolt is now redundant and could be eliminated if desired, but like you say it is handy to hold everything in position for welding. Mart. PS while youe were at it it might be worthwhile making a similar gusset to strengthen the lower shock mount back to the bone.. It seems to be hanging in mid air somewhat. Edit: An afterthought: It's easy to overdo these things, but if you look at the shackle, that has two pieces of steel about 3/16" thick, no more than an inch wide, and nobody ever says they are not strong enough. In reality your attachment only needs to match that sort of strength to be adequate (I know the shackle sees no bending - it's straight tension) so the twin 1/4" gussets as described should easily exceed the strength of the shackles.
thank you for you input Mart. i feel the same as you. these brackets will give me piece of mind. as for the shock bracket it comes off the bottom of the bone and its a thick round bar that was bent 90. i think its ok for a shock mount, for now.
Looking at your photo again I'd take them a bit higher too, wrapping over the top of the bone somewhat. probably up just past the transition to where it looks lighter in the pic. Mart. Edit: had a stab at modifying your pic. Jeez it's hard to draw in "paint".
well i got it done today... had some scrap 1/4" that was big enough for the 4 brackets. btw i made them taller than the mock ups (just not as tall as you may have thought Mart)... welded them in at angles, the welding possitions were not favorable. i did the best i could without taking the bones off the car. i think they are good, just not pretty... then i taped off some stuff and sprayed some primer, followed by some bumper chrome paint, its amazing how similar the finish is. im sure after a couple days it wont be noticable... so there you have it, now i feel better. its much safer than it was before. and yes i kept the nut and bolt in place. so thanks for all the great feedback! Yaril
Looks pretty good, I'd say. I'd be a lot more confident with that setup rather than just the bolt. Might be worth checking if the nut has loosened. If so it should be retightened, just for the belt and braces factor. Mart.
Good job adding the gussets and noticing a unsafe condtion. Before you take it on the road, check other points-steering connections, and other areas that may be unsafe!
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