1952-59 Ford Frustrated with this "heating up" thing!!!

I just put one of those spacers on my flathead too . Havent driven to far yet to see if it cures the problem good luck sounds like we are fighting the same demons

 

Yeah...I have mine all drawn up on the Phenolic, drilled the holes, now off to the scroll saw to cut them out. They look good so far. When I say "they", I'm only making two in case I break one. I only have the single carb on the car.

 

I haven't had time to read through all the posts BUT After all the engines that were built and you have this problem on the intake ? Something doesn't sound right at all . I know that the ****py fuel we have to use doesn't help at all on the older engines either . I know the flathead engines tend to run hot if the timing isn't dead on . The cooling issue sounds like you aren't getting enough coolant moving through the engine. Could be the radiator or the water pumps . I hope you do have the thermostats in the engine . If you take a thermostat out of an engine it can make the engine run hotter sometimes .

Jim

 

Hey, thanks, Jim.

Just had the radiator built...it's brand spanking new copper/br***. When I was swapping the rads, I flsuhed the block several times jsut to make sure nothing foreign was in there. Eveything on/in the engine is brand new...water pumps are new. And I absolutely have thermostats in her.

Now the timing mayb be another animal. look above for the manner in which I timed it... It should be dead on...UNLESS it's supposed to have some sort of initial advance or something...

I would say that I've set it at Zero, if I was asked. I have the timing mark on the damper lined up exactly with the timing marker on teh block...

 

Make sure you change out the studs on the carb for the longer studs when you put on the spacer the originals are to short

 

Everything sounds like you did it the right way for sure ! I will ***ume the engine is stock built as well . Are you running headers ? That will cause extra heat in there too . Are you using a stock fan ? Are you running a hotter spark plug by some chance ? What octane of fuel are you using ? Higher octane fuels or booster additives will make your engine run hotter to .
Just asking .

Jim

 

No problem! Ask away!

Yep. Engine is stock, besides being bored 30 over. I am running a set of Red's Headers, stepped out to 2" at the ends and then running 2" exhaust all the way back with 22" Brockman Mellow Tones just in front of the rear axle. Yes, the fan is also stock...the 'ol 3-blade, but it holds an 9" piece of cardboard against the radiator at idle, so I thought that was sufficient...

Using the stock replacement "Champion" spark plugs in her as well. Also Just running 87 octane.

Just as a side note, come to think of it I guess I have the fuel pump on carb set in the "standard"(center) hole...but thought if I ran the leaner one, it would run hotter which I have a problem with while idling in traffic. Or could I switch it to leaner and then turn in the idle screws....

Is it possible to have the idle screws turned out too far and that's what's making it heat up at idle? Running too lean at idle???

 

have you had the block and heads checked for flow of coolant is the block filled with rust settled along cyl's remove bottom side plugs and flush out i have a 53 and a 52 no over heating .

 

Well I have sat here for the last 45 mins going through 4 pages of posts to all your problems ! Personally I would have ran the car off a cliff by now ! No really but you know what I mean with all you have gone through with that engine overheating .
First you never , ever what to starve or run any engine lean . That is bad all the way around ! I will ***ume you have the carb and timing all done now and there is no more vapor lock , engine stumbling or any problem with how the engine performers at this time , right ?
To help keep the heat down in the engine bay you might consider header wraps . They really do help ! You did buy a really good set of headers as well ! I am going to install a set on a friends flathead here soon too with cherry bombs that is on there right now .
First as for oil a 10-40w is great for summer and 10-30w will be good for winter IF you are in a very cold climate . If not a 10-40w is a great all around oil for any older car . Now the BAD . There is NO zinc in the oil so if you DIDN'T have exhaust seats put into the block when it was rebuilt you need to add some ! You can go to Advanced Auto and Lucas Oil has one in the additive section on the top shelf in a round bottle that says it's for engine break in . Get a bottle and add to your oil every time you change your oil ! That has all the zinc and other minerals needed for a flat tap cam engine . Diesel oils , Rotella , Valvoline Racing and other don't carry enough in their oils . There are some that is made just for flattap engines from Lucas oil Amsoil which I use , Penn Bran and a couple others . DON'T use the modern synthetic oils in any older engine because it's very thin and designed for use in modern engines . Plus use a very good oil filter as well . I recommend either WIX racing or K & M filers ! They do the best cleaning of any filter made out the ! I think WIX still make a canister filer unless you did a screw on filter conversion . All the cheap filter you get at the parts store a junk ! They don't filter very good at all . But you use what you want to . Oils have change so much that when we had good oils our engines lasted a long time for a reason just like the fuel we used ! Ethanol runs hotter and eats the rubber out in any old carb kits so beware on how old the carb kits are when you rebuild your carburetor !
Just consider this , you spend $5000 + to rebuild your engine so why use a $4 filter to clean the oil in your new engine ? Same goes with your air filter as well ! I am NOT pointing a finger at you , I am just stating this for EVERYONE to consider !
OK you got the new radiator in , timing set , carb set , "Re set" the fuel pump for normal flow not leaner , new thermostats , new water pumps . So have I missed anything here at all ? Did you do a total rebuild of the carb or just a gasket kit ? A better fan will help and have more air cooling the outside of the engine . Also get a container of Wetter Water . It will drop the temp of the cooling system by 10 to 29 degrees ! Really does work !

Let us know how you make out and what is it doing now ! We will all get this fixed one way or the other ! It has to be something in the block causing this problem ! Maybe you can take the car to the radiator shop and have them do a flow test on the engine . That will tell you if something is blocking the flow in the block someplace .

Jim

 

Hmmm, checked for flow of coolant? Not that I'm aware of. I've flushed the block via the T-stat openings and out the waterpump inlets the four times I've had the radiator out...but that's it. It's been fairly orange when I've done that, but the coolant has always been nice and green. no **** floating around or anything.

Might have to call the engine builder and ask him a few things.
Is that something I can do with the engine in? or is that a "only when it's apart" sort of process?

 

Wow Jim! I appreaciate this very much!

You have no idea!!! I was ready to send the damned thing to the CRUSHER about two weeks ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just ask my wife! But even more-so...disappointed. you put ALL that work and time and $$$ and effort into something and it STILL isn't right...you wonder what it's going to take?! Dropping in a 302 instead?!

Yep everything runs great now, until I hit traffic and I have to idle through it...up goes the temp gauge and the fuel begins to percolate and the car sputters to a stop. But it's never once boiled over.

I did have the hardened intake and exhaust valve seats put in it when it was rebuilt, so I'm guessing I'm ok without the oil additive.

I'm also using the original oil filter system with WIX canister-type filters. All orig.

I wonder about the interior of the block as well... One hell of a guy, and a family friend, is the guy that rebuilt our engine. He's in his mid 70's now and has been rebuilding flatheads for years! He used to race them actually, so I trust everything he did in the building respect.

I have no idea if the block was boiled out or not, but I'll be finding out. I'm pretty sure it wasn't magnafluxed or anything.

I'll call up Bill and see what info he can offer up about his build.

Thanks again!

 

Glad to hear you have a good old timer that rebuilt a lot of flatheads did your ! It's really a different breed than a overhead valve engine . Basics are the same but a good flathead builder is worth their weight in gold !
Glad to hear you are using a good oil filter as well !
Sorry but you still need the zinc additives for the oil tp protect your flat tap camshaft and lifters !
The exhaust seats depended on the Lead from the fuel to cushion the valve against the valve seat .
Have you given the fuel pump more pressure yet ? Also what size fuel line are you using ? One other thing , the line from the fuel pump to the carb , does it have any rubber pieces in it at all ? Does the line go straight up to the carb or does it have a downward bend in it after the highest point in the fuel line . In other words creating a dip in the line ? That might cause a problem as well if the fuel pressure isn't keeping the fuel line full at all times and the ethanol is boiling away from the heat in the fuel line . You can also wrap the fuel line with rubber gas hose . Just split the hose and wrap around the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carb . That will keep the fuel much cooler !
Now for the cooling issue , seems like it's fine while idling and driving but runs up when you sit in traffic or a stop light . Is this correct ? If this is correct then you have a flow problem ! the higher rpms keep it fine but when it sits at a lot once the coolant is hot , it will run the temperature up . Honestly if that is the case , an electric fan will be all you need to keep the coolant cooler in traffic . They don't need to run all the time but you will need 12v for one . A 6v might be made but haven't seen one yet .

Jim

 

Having the block Magnaflux is ONLY for checking for cracks in the block .
Also make sure the block was cleaned , tanked and wire brushed to clean everything out . I am sure he did but doesn't hurt to ask what all was done to the block . Also when a block is bored and squared up at the heads , that creates more compression which in-turn creates more heat as well . Flatheads just love the heat and they are noted for that !

Jim

 

How do I "add" pressure to the fuel pump? It's just a stock pump with the gl*** bowl...

The fuel line I put in from the new tank is stock size...3/8" maybe? That runs to the new rubber hose at the fire wall which runs to the pump. Then from the pump to the carb, I stepped up the 1/4" hard line to 5/16" thinking that would help the percolating problem. Nope. No "dips" in the line though, it's straight. The line does have a slight downward slope from the pump I believe, but is almost parallel with the block.

I'll take you up on the rubber gas line "wrap" thing. I was going to use header wrap, but your idea would be much nicer looking.

Cooling Issue: Well, that's kind of correct. It will run at normal temp whenver I'm driving it. ok cool. And sitting at a light, it will creep up just the width of the needle or so, but then I'm never at a light very long and it cools right back to normal. But just Friday night when I got caught in "stop & go(very slow) traffic on a highway for about 12/15 minutes, that's when it really started to get warm and then before the temp needle got ot hte "H" side of the gauge, it started to sputter, like the gas was vapor locking....

The same sort of thing it does at the high rpm's like we spoke of earlier... it's weird how I get the same effect/problem, but in two completely different situations.

I converted her to 12v Neg ground with a one-wire alt., so I'm good there if I put an electric fan on it. I know a buddy that might have one I could even borrow and try...

 

This is what you wrote earlier today , " Just as a side note, come to think of it I guess I have the fuel pump on carb set in the "standard"(center) hole...but thought if I ran the leaner one, it would run hotter which I have a problem with while idling in traffic. Or could I switch it to leaner and then turn in the idle screws....

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That is where I got that from when you were telling me about setting it leaner .
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Have you gone through a tank of gas since this started ? Maybe you have some bad gas . Also step up the octane to the middle grade . Back in the day there was 89 octane and nothing lower so the engine might not like the lower octane . You are only talking about an extra $1.50 a tank so that might be something to try . Might try some premium as well to see if that is the problem .

As for the overheating that fast at a stop , it has to be the way the coolant is flowing . That is why I said about having a flow test done to the engine . The radiator shop can do that for you .

BTW , I do build very nice 302/ 5.0 engines ! Just kidding but I really do build engines for older cars , do rust repairs and pretty much anything to do with our older cars !
Jim

 

Hey Jim,

Yep, I've gone through over two tanks now. Starting to get irritiating, you know?

Ha! Don't tempt me with a 302!! ; )

I'll keeping wrenching and see waht I come up with and post it here...

Anybody know if the way I've listed that I timed the car is actually correct? I'm just shootin' from the hip! Other than reading the shop manual, getting a few tips on here, and checking vacuum, I have NO idea how to actually time this fleathead.