I Installed a new fuel pump on the 289 today and the arm that comes out of the fuel pump (when timing cover is on the engine) is in front of the timing chain...What makes the pump work? There is nothing on the timing gear that sticks out far enough to touch the arm so I dont see how it would make the arm move up and down. Is there something I'm missing that needs to be mounted on the timing gear? Thanks Guys
Yes, There is a fuel pump ecentric that mounts on the camshaft sprocket that the fuel pump arm rides on that moves the arm. You will need to find the parts and pull the timming cover off to install them. Or an easy out would be to install an electric pump and then block off the fuel pump mounting hole with a block off plate. Sounds like somebody had an electric pump on it before. I have found that the mechanical is much more reliable than the electric pumps.
Thanks Kenymac, I will have to get with Fordsbyjay and see if he has that part...It wasnt on the cam gear and the old fuel pump was still in the timing cover so I guess he took it off at sometime. If he doesnt have it I will have to see if they sell them aftermarket somewhere. thanks for the info.
I have it somewhere but who knows were. I don't throw anything away as you have seen. I will be out of town for a few weeks so if you can wait I will look when I get home. If not they can't be very much money to buy a new one. It is a little round thing with the bolt hole off center and it goes on the front of the camshaft. The smaller hole goes over the cam pin.
Thanks Jason, I appreciate the pic now i remember what it looks like! LoL I will try to find one from a parts store or something thanks
Just buy an electric fuel pump . Then you can try to get it running . With the part missing you will have to tear the front of the engine off to install it . Hell I would just get the electric fuel pump to safe the time of tearing the timing cover off . You can get a block off plate or use the fuel pump to block it off . Just a thought ! Jim
While I agree that an electric fuel pump is a great thing to have, I'd suggest that you use it as a reserve item rather than for everyday operation. You might as well go ahead and replace the eccentric while you can get at it. This way you'll have a choice. My $.02.
I dont have the timing cover on permenantly just setting on there right now...My dad (trying to help) took all my boxes to the burn pile...along with my gaskets! So now i have to get some more before i put the front on the motor. I think I'm going to go ahead and get a eccentric and put it on. What is the pro's and con's of either one? I would think with an electric pump i would also have to install a pressure regulator. I know i did one time when i went from a mechanical pump to an electric pump on a jeep i had because it was flooding the engine out and putting gas in the oil due to too much pressure from the fuel pump.
I thought you had the engine all done . I would just get the parts and run the mechanical fuel pump . The electrics are OK but seem not to last to long from the great gas we have to use . That's for the cheaper ones . The more costly ones do last longer but if they give up , you are stuck ! I am running a mechanical fuel pump in my 55 Ford . Jim
The main advantage, as I see it, to having an electric fuel pump is when a mechanical pump cannot be fitted due to clearance difficulties. A back-up electric fuel pump is to overcome temporary vapor lock on hot days...if you have a vapor lock problem. My old '51 shoebox had a stock flatty and would vapor lock at the most inconvenient times. Flipping the switch under the dash would activate the low pressure in-line electric fuel pump and within seconds the engine would smooth out and off I'd go. That car also had a problem starting when it had sat for a week or so, the stock fuel pump being slow to refill the carburetor float bowl. Running the electric pump for a few seconds prior to hitting the starter ****on cured that problem as well. For the most part, modern motors don't have either of these problems if they are operating properly, so the electric fuel pump is only for the times you run out of gas (refills the carb without having to crank the motor for a long time) and in an emergency when your mechanical fuel pump fails...which it won't ever do when it knows you've got an electric back-up unit!
missysdad1 , that is a really great idea for an older car that tend to drain the carbs when they sit for a good while . My 55 Y block was the say way but I have 12v running g to it and not that slow 6v batter ! I know a lot of people int the heat states have vapor lock problems epically with the Edelbrock 600 carbs . A cheap electric fuel pump would be a real life saver PLUS it's much safer than dumping fuel down the carb to get the engine running . That's cheap insurance for sure ! Jim
So if I understand it right you can have an electric fuel pump in line with a mechanical one and with the electric fuel pump off the fuel will still flow?
Mark a mechanical fuel pump can be less troublesome then an electric. The biggest benefit is they are a lot quieter (no noise at all actually). Did you buy a new pump or are you using the one I gave you?
Something else to be sure to check when you install the ecentric is to be sure that the locating pin that goes into the camshaft is there and that it is not to long!! If it is too long the washer on the hold down bolt will not set flat and can cause you problems. I have seen a few that were to long and caused major problems. Also check to make sure that it is not to short. If it has been put together with the short pin it will not hold the eccentric in place. It probably has the short pin now as it should now be flush with the camshaft sprocket so the hold down washer will be flat against the sprocket. Ken
If you do go with an electric pump, remember that most (if not all) are "pusher" pumps, not "puller" pumps. You need to mount it as close to the tank as possible. Whoever put one on my 86 Bronco before I bought it neglected that fact and I had to replace mine.
Thanks for the info Guy's I am going to go with the mechanical pump and may later do like Missysdad said and put an electric inline for JIC Times. Jason, yes I bought a chrome one on line but still have the one you gave me also. Kenymac I will take a look and see about the pin also thanks
It had an eccentric on it so there should be no issues with the pin. I took it off because I never run mechanical pumps. I have never found them as reliable as electric pumps.
I shared my experience with a couple of others, maybe this will help you out some. I had to buy an eccentric for my 302, it works fine so far. This is what I learned and what worked for me. First I would say to read through these threads, threads I posted a while back when I was asking about what to do and didnt know where to start. Good info there. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375585 http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all...7-timing-cover-swap-mechanical-fuel-pump.html http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,19514.msg176878.html The short story is, you need a timing cover which has the provision for the mechanical fuel pump. Get one with the provision for a dipstick as well. Then unless your engine has one already for some reason, you need to install a fuel pump eccentric which is what hits the fuel pump arm to pump it. There is a 1 piece eccentric and a 2 piece. Does the cam gear have a raised shoulder where the eccentric bolts on? If so it requires the 2 piece eccentric style. Or if it does NOT have a raised shoulder, you will use the 1 piece style. 1 piece http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6287-C302/ and 2 piece http://butlerperformance.com/images/DressUpMIsc/APE-N536B.jpg For the 1-piece eccentrics you will need the longer dowel pin in your cam because it goes through the timing gear and the eccentric to hold in place. The newer 2-piece eccentrics have a tab on them that set in the timing gear so the camshaft dowel does not protrude into the eccentric. If using the newer 2-piece eccentric you will have to have the short dowel pin installed in your cam. Mine required the 2 piece eccentric and short dowel pin. A trip to the local comp cam shop got me a free dowel pin the correct length. So, first you need to pull the timing cover and see what you have in there and that will determine which eccentric and dowel pin you need to use. BEFORE you pull the timing chain, make SURE you line up the cam and crank gears (dot to dot) before pulling the chain or you timing will be off. This will keep your timing set if you install it back the same way. For the 2 piece, this was how to install it Line up the cam and crank gear dot to dot (to keep your timing correct when you reinstall everything) Pull the bolt out of the cam gear Carefully pry the top gear off... prying the bottom gear off as well as you go (alternate back and forth) Get some plyers or vise grips and grab the cam dowel pin, turn it and pull, may need to spray lubricant as well. Put new pin in place and tap in Place gears back on top and bottom of cam/crank Alternate tapping gears back in place making sure they are aligned dot to dot as they were when you removed them. Check pin depth to make sure it is recessed enough for eccentric. If not get a punch and tap in further as needed. Use locktight and reinstall cam bolt and eccentric. You just need to make sure of what you have so you get the correct eccentric, becasue the wrong one will stick out further and rub the inside of the timing cover. Hopefully this will help out, good luck. Aligned dot to dot. You can see the dowel pin in there. Things to note here, its not recessed in the hole enough to allow the eccentric with the tab to fit in place. This is why you have to pull the chain, remove the dowel pin, install the shorter dowel to allow the eccentric room to go in place. My 2 piece eccentric Installed and aligned dot to dot again Timing cover on You can see the eccentric through the mechanical fuel pump slot, and there is adequate clearance.
I have never seen a two piece unit but they sure look flimsy. All he needs is the eccentric like the picture I posted. Pull the bolt out of the front of the camshaft, put on the eccentric and put the bolt back on with a dab of loc***e. Done deal. He already has the right EVERYTHING else. Don't make this out to be more then it needs to be Mark.
Great post by ctfortner!! As it shows others who may have the two peice eccentric on their 289 -302 what to look for. I have seen many of them put together with the wrong pieces mismatched and cause big time problems. I just tore down a 302 with wrong pieces and it wiped out the whole motor with metal shavings all thru the motor. But as fordsbyjay said he already knows this particular motor. So all should be good to go. Ken
ctfortner- Thanks for posting up the more detailed photos!! i will be swapping an engine over from efi to carb and i have very limited knowledge as to how this all works. seeing the pictures is exaclty what i needed to see, for how it all goes together!!! great info!! Baggs
One thing that you might run into like I did is that , if you go and but an early timing cover with the oil stick in front , the eccentric might stick out too far . Mind actually hit the timing cover and when I looked at a timing cover on a 5.0 ,the timing cover is about 1/8 th taller than the original 289 timing covers . I changed the timing chain back to a stock chain and same thing happened . I took mine to my machinist and had it turned down about 3/16 th's to get it to fit . So if anyone is going to use a modern 5.0 and use a 289/302 timing cover , make sure it fits . There is a difference in how wide some timing covers are . It might just be one of those weird things to happen but that was a first for me . As for people thinking that electric fuel pumps are better than a mechanical fuel pump , I will say I would much rather have a mechanical fuel pump over a electric fuel pump any day of the week ! A Mechanical Fuel Pump will last so much longer than an electric fuel pump will any day of the week ! If your engine needs a higher amount of fuel , you can get a high volume mechanical fuel pump that will feed your engine fine . I honestly think people put a BIG electric fuel pump on their car because they really think they have to or makes the engine run better ! If it's a street car you don't need an electrical high volume fuel pump because your engine can only use so much fuel on a street engine ! If I am wrong then why do you have to turn the fuel pressure way down and have a return line to your gas tank ? Why waist money on bigger parts than you will ever need . If you are running a 700+ hp engine with a big Dominator carb then I can understand a big electric fuel pump but the bottom line is a good name brand Mechanical Fuel Pump will run most any engine made EXCEPT an EFI engine ! Good Luck with your fuel pump issues ! Jim
I agree with Jim about the mechanical fuel pump. I put a Carter electric pump on my 54 Chev p/u, and every time I came to the USA, that thing would let me down. After 3 new pumps, I had to do one of 2 things - stop going to the US or go with a different pump. The last time it quit was at the Woodward Ave cruise. After running down the street to a Pep Boys store, and grabing a el cheapo pump, I spent a bunch of time crawled under a lowered truck making this thing work.
I guess it is like everything, some parts fail and some don't. I have had the exact opposite results, changed plenty of mechanical pumps on my 460 and I have never had an electric pump fail in 20+ years of using them. The old holley blue pump in my small block pinto has been there since the early 90's.
Hey Retro Jim, what do you mean by "oil stick"? IIRC the very first 289's had a shorter front dress (water pump etc) and I presume the timing cover you are talking about. I have swapped all kinds of 289 and 302 parts and never ran into a problem so I guess I have been lucky.
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