I appreciate your help and effort. Thanks. I have tryed a couple of diff ways to get that plug to move. One of them was exactly like you discribed, to the point I teared the rubber holding element on my best ratchet while hitting it with a small sledge hammer. I also tryed with a correct (inch - imperial) box end wrench. This one I borrowed from the old man that straightened my bumper on the forge (remember?). It was from old english (dont know the brand) buses that he drove back in the day. The problem is that along the way someone encoutered the same issue and the corners of the plug are already a bit rounded. Also the plugs head (sorry for lack of term) as you know is too shallow for the socket to bite good. I changed the oil a while ago and that was when I noticed this issue. Then I had it ****ed out, which I wouldnt like to do again since there is probably sludge at the pan's bottom that needs to be cleaned. I think I'll drop the pan, clean it good, take it to the machine shop to get the plug out and a new one made (I aint got taps that size). Is the use of a gasket demanded or can I use sealant? Also, does the stabilizer bar need to come out, or can the pan just slide back? Damn I miss her... Regards.
BTW, still OT, but it wouldnt be a good idea to weld a nut to the plug would it?.. Heat would help unfreezing it but... Oil, gas nearby and weld... humm... probably not.
Rui I am almost certain it had a gasket.one possibility is that PO installed plug without gasket and overtightened plug to stop the leak that would result from no gasket.doing this would result in probably running past the threaded portion on plug and probably galled the thread in pan.you said you pumped it out last time you changed oil.if it is galled you may be able to rethread if no more than one thread is stripped the nut portion in pan may not be deep enough to chase with a tap and leave enough thread to hold plug after.if it is galled and stuck in. removing pan is your only option I think something you could try while time consuming would be to once you have pan off is to take a punch and mark a point in center of head of plug try to center it well.then if you have a good selection of drill bits drill a pilot hole with a 1/4 inch bit then look from pan side if hole is in center of plug then use 3/8 bit or little larger do not go to big you want to step up in bit sizes checking the hole from pan side trying to finally leave as little of the wall on plug without hitting the threaded part in pan.I have used this method to remove galled or cross threaded bolts now you can try the socket or wrench and hammer.the idea of drilling out is to relieve the tension on the threads.being hollow it can collapse inward.if this fails you can take a blunt chisel and on the corners on head of bolt try to drive it in the direction of loosening.if this fails then weld a nut to plug head let it cool I usually pore water on or ice on to shock it.a galled bolt can be very difficult to remove due to the remaining threads being destroyed leaving less good threads to aid in removing the plug (bolt).your thought on re taping may work but make sure to check thread pitch as I think it is a pipe thread not straight.worst case if re threading will not work then try to find a weld in bung with a pipe thread and have that welded on pan with a plug of same size to allow removing in future when changing oil.I would try to have someone tig weld the new plug in due to thin metal on pan.gas would work also.now as to wether you need to drop stabilizer I am not sure on your 6 if you look in your manual I am sure it will show what is involved as every pan removal involves a different approach.(making sure crank throws clear etc)hope my babbling on makes sense and helps
Thanks Barry. That is the same approach to dealing with the broken bolts in the block. I think I can manage. I'm just gonna try and **** the oil out first so that the mess is minimal. This weekend I just replaced the wiring on my dynamo, dis***embled some parts, lubbed it, painted. Also I welded some cracks on my aircleaner and cleaned the engine good. I didnt have anybody to help me with the pan so I'll do it next weekend, along with the fuel pump that still hasnt arrived... Thanks for helping. Regards.
Rui thats good to hear your progressing I thought when we had not heard from that you may spending your time reading my novel on pan plug problem LOL.
Hehe, but I did spend some time reading and re-reading your input. That part of the novel is on stand-by till the weekend. Yesterday I got some goodies delivered. Gonna mount them today =) Regards
Got it Now, after reading the instructions, I've got doubt as how can I determine in what position the arm lever is (on the old one) and should be (in the new one). Damn.. what does it mean "Before removing the old fuel pump, note wheter fuel section is in up or down position". How can that be determined of the rod is still in the block? Cant I just keep bumpin the car in 3rd till the old pump comes out straight, neither tilting forward nor backwards?
Re-reading my post I guess I'm mixing things. Could you guys just point the correct way to easily get the new pump in with the lever in the correct position? Thanks
Just position the arm lever under the lobe? Right? (Sorry for keeping asking and aswering my own questions. I need a vacation!) Regards
Rui, once you have the old pump out you should be able to see or feel the eccentric that drives the pump. It will become very evident what the correct position needs to be to easily install the new pump. Don't over think it. Good luck.
Rui I am pretty sure you want the arm under the eccentric.but as Brodie said when you pull the pump out you will see.if when you unbolt you will feel pressure if the eccentric is in a down position(loading the pump).if it is in pumping stroke you will know as it will want to push the pump out while you undue the bolts.After you have cut the silicone holding it.hard to explain it will not matter if you pull it with it in the load position.where you will notice is installing new one if eccentric is down you will know as when you put in you will find that you have to push pump up and in if this will not hurt anything just makes it awkward to hold tight and start bolts.that is why we suggest bumping over to move eccentric to top.once you start it will make sense to you.I have put in at least 80-90 over the years and have done it without bumping but it helped I knew why it was hard to push against pump when eccentric in down position(in a hurry to install)read as to lazy to try and bump to relieve pressure on arm.try putting a FP on chevrolet small and big block with the rod that drives the pump arm.I used a trick for that.you do not want to try installing from below for your pump as in the little of video I watched.
Thanks guys. Then I guess there is no bad way to install it, I mean, there is no dangerous aspect that I might overlook and create a problem. Its just a matter of how difficult the task is. Right?
Rui as long as you have arm under eccentric it will be correct and easy.do not forget gasket.for us that have done it some may think you are over thinking the job.if you do as we are telling you it will go smooth.like any time you attempt something the first time if we were there to show you it would be easier for you to see it done.
You 're right Barry, guess it will become evident when I get my hands on it on saturday. Mounted the shocks yesterday night. She's stiff as a wood board. I think I'll notice great improvement when I drive her. The OE Fomocos where pretty sluggish. Also mounted new raybestos swaybar links and bushings. I was glad to read Made in the USA on the Airtex FP box. Thanks for helping. I'll get back when its done. Regards.
Replaced the OE fuel pump with the airtex 4208. Runs great, no carb flooding. Left if runnin with no issues for some 20 min, so I guess i'm out of the woods. I'm draining the oil right now so I can drop the pan and replace the freezed plug. Check out my redneck solution. It takes quite a bit to **** it all out (a whole afternoon) but this way I can solve the issue at home. Just create and maintain vacuum in the system. Thanks for helping. Regards
Rui what are you using for pump it looks like an old fiam air horn pump.I thought they only put out air so it can not be.ingenious what we use at hand to solve problems.I would guess the advice on the FP install worked out OK.one more thing off your how do i do this list
Barry, you've got some pretty sharp eyes. That is in fact a Fiam air horn compressor. The thing is I inverted it. Drilled and tapped the little hole it had (a hole with oil embebed wire mesh covering it) for ****ing air in and screwed in the flange for attaching the rubber hose. Had done it to ***ist the vac wiper motor a while ago. It can deliver some reasonable vacuum since it created void enough to **** all that oil through a 5mm hose. But I guess its just a matter of creating the vacuum and mantaing it without any leak. Even if its low, the oil keeps flowing at its rhitm. Advice on fp was spot on. One can really feel the cam lobe and know where the pumps arm must go. Just had a last minute problem since I hadnt noticed that the airtex would require much sorter bolts to secure it to the block and the gasket and sealer were already in place. Another thing scratched out of the list alright. I'll drop the pan tomorrow. Never done it but I guess it will be straight forward. I'm gonna remove the sway bar for better clearance (probably its mandatory) remove the ~20 bolts the pan has and go from there. I dont have a gasket at hand, but I'll use that victor reinz sealant. Its what I've been using with everything (gas - thin coat, oil, water) with no issues. Bad idea? Regards
I like your ability to use what is on hand.as to rienz sealant try to keep it as close to center of pan rail it should work the biggest problem will be not applying big glob on as when you put it on you do not want it to squeeze out inside pan it will plug screen on pickup leading to another job you do not want to do.(rebuild motor crank bearings etc.)I prefer a gasket in that spot.while you have the pan off check the area around where the bolts go I have seen where people have used a long bar(joke)at least you would think seeing the way it bends that area up toward block.they are only 1/4 and 1/2 inch bolts they have a leak and think I will just tighten more bending the rail leading to leak worsening.you want that area to be flush with rail.I do not remember if your pan will have the recessed areas that are in pan hard to explain.you do not want to hammer those down (up) just the area where the bolts go.holding a block of wood on the under side of rail and tap them flat or the edge of work bench.also run a small bead on the dished ares on the front and rear of pan again do not go crazy.your manual should show the torque specs on bolts.over here they show inch pounds some 3/8 torque wrenches show inch pounds some do not if your does not you will need to do the math.or just use good judgement.I know you know to clean areas where you are using sealant.removing sway bar will make it easier to remove pan giving you a better chance of getting pan back on without smearing the sealant on something when putting it back on.let us know how you make out.
All good Vicky, thank you. I've done the same thing to gearboxes on old cars and am aware of the need not to warp the pans rails (I'll use my kitchen table late at night while my girlfriend is sleeping to make sure its true and flat). Now I'm dealing with another issue =) Check out the pic attached. The oil pan is free and pretty much empty. Redneck solution worked out fine. I have only but two center bolts holding it AND TWO DARN HIDDEN BOLTS ON THE FRONT END of the pan (See green arrows) From where I stand there is only one way to get them out so I can drop the pan, and that is to remove this tubular support / bracket (Red arrows). Now's the dilema: isnt that part of the engine's support? Wont it tilt forward? The bracket also is used for radiator shell. I can unscrew the two bots holding the pan but I dont have clearance to remove them. Help much appreciated as usual. Thank you.
Hi Rui I answered your question on the barn.as you will see you do need to remove steady rest(front mount).only thing was I am not sure where to place hook on hoist on engine.v8s are a little easier to attach hoist to for me.another thing to add to your I have done list.possibly the I6 board you mentioned in an earlier post may have a few tips on doing this.as I said its been over 50 years since I did it
Barry, cant thank you enough for keeping up with these little issues of mine and I appreciate the tips. I have already managed to remove the pan. As you had proposed, I rebolted most of the pan and used another jack to support the engine on the front. Then I removed that rest and took the time to wire brush it clean along with the silent blocks (with petrocleaner). Then I very slowly started relieving the jack to see if the engine moved. It didnt, not even a mm. Then I removed the pan not before I had to rotate the cranckshaft a bit with a wrench to get the pan to clear the n.º6 piston's rod. Covered the engines guts with a piece of plastic so nothing would enter there, lowered the car and used the jack again to support the front part of the engine, just in case. Pics attached are the remaining oil on pan (redneck solution works great), the engines crankcase, the 51 shades of gray on the pans oil muck (about 2 inches thick). Cant thank you and the other guys enough. Tonight is cleaning time and hopefully, tomorrow, the machinist will solve my plug's problem. Regards
Good job on the fuel pump, Rui. Don't forget to clean the the suction screen on the oil pump pick-up.
OK guys, thanks for the input. Brodie, safe to use lacquer thiner, white spirit or so? I'll have to clean good the pan contact area on the block, so that the sealant sticks. Ideas on this? The pan was cleaned with a crush and those green things used to wash the dishes, that along with petrocleaner and some lacquer thiner finally. She's at the machinist right now. Regards
Rodrigo, Lacquer thinner will be fine. Are you planning to leave the old gasket in place on the block and supplement with sealer?
Brodie! Its Rui! All good. I was thinking of removing it all. There is just too much goo everywhere and sealant wont adhere oily cork. Dont know if you're familiar with this pans dished rim or if it has the same configuration on v8's but I was thinking of applying sealant only on the outside half pockets of those grooves. Just a bit, I wont go crazy with that. I do not have a gasket, but now I'm thinking I might make one. Portugal is a world supplier of cork so I might get off with that. After straightening the slight lumps on the pan rail's bolt area, caused by someone over tightening the bolts, would you think sealant alon would do the trick?
Rui, call me crazy, but I am not a fan of sealant only gaskets. Since you have access to cork sheet goods, why not give that a try? You could get a good template by carefully removing the old gasket.
I'm with you, I'd rather have a gasket alright. The only way is to make one 'cause I'm not gonna wait for 10 or 15 days for a gasket to arrive, with the risk of being broken in half or so given the journey. It will be difficult to find a cork sheet that size, but I'm gonna see what I can find. Thanks
Rui I am with Brodie I am sure it can be made in 4 pieces 1 on each rail then 1 each on ends a touch of silicone to hold also as I said before run a bead on the dished ends.while time consuming it will pay off.it will not have to be exact I lay the cork on after running a bead of sealant on rails let it set up then trim inside it does not need to be perfect and then trim outside once bolted up.hardest part is the bolt holes but if you use a sharp pointed blade after sealant is dry and holding it is not hard.a valve cover or any where else that is easy to get at is one thing but for the work to re due pan.if you do decide to make gasket before sealant sets up with cork on turn pan over and place on a flat surface to keep from puckering and leaving any voids place weight on pan this will help to eliminate this.I do not know why I keep telling you to dab sealant in the dishes on the ends I am too used to the generals V8 pans.it has nothing to do with CRS in combination with cheap drugs
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