G-body subframe in a shoebox Ford??

Anybody done it?

Pics?

Better yet, directions?

How do the frames mate up? same as S-10?

Thanks,
Rich

 

don't do it.

You'll regret it!

Honestly, with all the aftermarket parts available from companies like jamco, etc... There really is no benefit to sub framing your car.

 

I'm sure the Jamco stuff is great, but holy hell! it adds up...

You could easily spend over $2K on front end parts alone.

 

I have a G body El Camino....The frame is wide,nearly to the rocker panels between the front and rear wheels.Front end parts are like S-10 but a wider stance.

 

That's what I got. I don't have pics here but it works out okay. After figuring out back space for the disc brakes, I cant think of any real issues...... I do agree though, if I hadn't bought the car that way, I wouldn't have sub framed it. It does make putting a SBC in it down right childs paly....

 

But you would be cutting it in the middle of the downturn, way before it heads out to the rocker panels.

Rich

 

Head up my ass here,I was thinking frame swap.The frame rails are about 36 inches apart along side the engine.Front tires are 65 inches outside to outside with 15 inch Rally wheels and 235 tires.

 

I put an s 10 sub under my shoebox and it was a snap. It was just a little to narrow but I used 1 inch spacers and it worked out good

 

I'd like to see some photos of the steering box and core support clearance if you have any. My guess is it's a little tight but what does it actually take to get it all together? I like my rear steer Nova unit but they are getting dated and S-10 stuff is easier to get. What size are the Rotors on a S-10?

Wizzard

 

The 78 to 87 G and A body front end uses the sa,e rotors, spindle, A frames, and springs as an S10, and is 2 1/2" wider through the center of the crossmember. I have installed one in a 51 Ford, fits nice. The core support need modification to clear the steering box, but only the lower 5" or so. I used an 81 Dodge Van radiator, cleared everything fine. I reworked the G body front frame horns to fit the stock Ford bumper. A 360 and 350 turbo fit fine after raising the trans hump in the front a bit. I did it by lifting the front of the engine with a hoist, and working the hump with a rubber mallet. It didn't turn out too bad, it placed in it'd class at Detroit Autorama three years running. Last year it was hit in the front while parked, hard enough to bend the right side A frames. It was repaired and is back on the road with no frame damage.

 

Sweet.

I'm thinking a G-body would be a good donor car.

Got any pics?

Did you raise the subframe up higher on the shoebox frame?

Is it wider? I HATE a subframe that's too wide for the car.

How low did it end up?

Can you use the rear from the same donor car?

Thanks in advance,
Rich

 

Done it, photographed it, wouldn't do it again. The stub lines up OK, but it's a little too wide wheel track wise. You can see in the pics I cut the GM clip at the front and molded it into the correct stock 50 bumper mounts and core support. I ended up narrowing the lower a arms and making my own uppers. All works bitchen but lot's o work. Hope this helps.

 

Hmmmm, that's what I am afraid of.

Nice shoebox, BTW.

Rich

 

i did the s-10 clip swap on my 53,by far the best thing ive ever done to this car...the ford frame is alittle wider than the s-10.no biggie.!!!theres no prob with the core or steering box.the s-10 track width is alittle narrower than the ford,i used wheel spacers that have gm-ford pattern.killed 2 birds with one stone on that one.
i butted the frames up together and it set about stock height. i think the jamco stuff is killer ,but you still use the stock steering gear box..mine was worn way out..plus i wanted power. with the s-10 you have a ton of up-grade options from bigger brakes & swaybars,better upper and lower control arms,steering boxes.
and if you ever need a replacement part they can be had at about any parts store off the shelve...
id do it again...

 

i used a g body frame for my plymouth but i think you car is too narrow what the track width of a shoe box rotor to rotor

 

Seems like the best approach if doing this swap is to narrow a "G" body a little bit, not as much as an S-10, but an inch or two can make a difference in several areas.

Cutting through the centerline of the crossmember, and narrowing the intermediate tie rod is all the surgery recalled.........and perhaps fitting a bit narrower anti-roll bar.

Ray

 

What I don't get, is how an S10 is too narrow, and a G-body is too wide, and there is only 2.5 inches difference.

Rich

 

Guess it depends on the tire/rim combo and what look you like. I like the wheels sitting in the wheel well a bit and being able to turn lock to lock on a slammed car and NOT have the tires rub.

 

<----- Oh, and this shoebox got a Fat Man clip... Knowing what I know now, I'd clip it before using their stuff again..

 

Clue us in on your experience............I have a Fatman shoebox stub sitting in the shop right now and a G body chassis outside..........what wre/are your concerns with the Fatman stuff?

Ray

 

I'm not sure I'd actually recommend it but I worked on a 50 Merc with a 77 Thunderbird chassis under it. It came in for the rear end to be narrowed for larger tires. The work as with the car itself was a bit rough and my initial thought was WTF is this and why would someone do it to a 50 Merc... Yet it was a surprising how well it fit with limited modification after taking a section out of the middle and triming the frame horns. In driving it what did impress me is the way it floated along while still being rather resposive. I could see why inspite of having nicer cars to choose from the owner made his trips to Florida in it. It would have to be a really rough example for me to consider it but the same swap with some polish on it could be a nice daily driver.

 

I had a shoebox with an s10 clip and it worked awsome, handled well ,good steering brakes ect. We used reversed rims to move the wheels out a bit and then ran hubcaps so you couldnt tell.This setup works better than any mustang based suspension will IMHO plus S10 donor vehicles are dirt cheap! It also made installing a sm blk a dream!

 

I used stock 14 by 6 Ford wheels, 205 75 14R tires with Lancer caps, no drama. bumper is about 4" to the road.

You can set the frame on the pavement if you want, but the trans tunnel will have to be raised.

there is 4" difference in width between a 77 G body front end, and a 78 G body front end. The 78 front end is the same width as a rear steer Nova, a Mustang II, a Fatman stub, or a stock Shoebox.

The G body rear end is too wide for a shoebox at about 60" I use A Maverick rear, and No Limit G body rotors with a dual pattern on the front, so the Ford wheels fit all around. Granada rotors will work too, using the GM bearing, and turning down the OD of the rotor to GM size. You also need a 1/8" spacer behind the inside brake pad with Granada rotors.

I'll see if I have pics, but they would have to be scanned, this was about 95 or so when I did the first one, and no pictures of later ones.

 

take a gander i built a frame clip half the price of fat mans and just as good

 

Different people have different preferences. Personally, I'd argue that 1.25 inches per side is not enough to worry about and some creative wheel backspacing would make the difference disappear.

And there is no such thing as a 1977 G-Body: earlier Malibu/Cutlass/Skylark/LeMans midsize GM were not designated as G-Body, they were designated as A-Body if I remember correctly.

 

'Re playing with backspacing........narrower or wider......yes, that is one way to deal with track width, but on an IFS ( and straight axle too) it really messes with the geometry designed into the front end originally. If not excessive, and when traveling in a straight line, it will have less effect. However, in turns it will be more pronounced.

In more extreme cases it will place a lot more load on wheel/hub bearings, ball joints (king pins) and other frontend components.

I realize it has been widely done.........but that doesn't make it 'right".

Ray

 

Did a 91 Lincoln town car front in my 51, fit it,measured it, plated all 4 sides of box frame, handles super, great ride, perfect width, cut just a couple of 4 inches of the springs to lower it. But I have a 4.6 SOHC AOD in it, you will have to x-periment with front engine weight and cutting springs.

 

Um, Wow.... The Fatman clip had issues, but nothing like that camber issue you have going....

 

thats true,after spending $2000 at jamco you still have to deal with terrible steering,they say you can put in volvo steering,,find one-Im also looking to subframe a shoebox but want to put in a ford 302