I get it, and someday guys will put electric motors in their hotrods when the fuel is unobtainable or cost prohibitive. Me? I will continue to build high compression engines that require the good stuff. Hell, even my 2020 High Country requires 92 octane or better. The more of you that use E87, leaves more 92 for me and mine. I had to wait at the local filling station in the roadster the other day for a guy filling his cool ass, flat bottom, blown BBC, Sanger speed boat and headed up to the reservoir (only 2 clear 92 pumps). He said, "this shits spendy". I replied, "less than rebuilding 3 Stromberg 97s". He grinned in agreement. Like sex in the Ozarks, it's all relative.
@TexasHardcore @Dave G in Gansevoort I have a question if one or both of you can answer I stumbled a year or so on I think they called it Top Shelf Gasoline Or Top Tear ? Witch has a Government Standard rating , Top Tear Gas meets the Gov Standard or Exceeds. I lived in same Area since 1970 so I have an ideal of the location and gas stations there is hundreds of gas stations in between just two counties I'am in driving, I looked up witch gas stations Sold Top Tear Gas , None of the Name Brand Gas Station Sold T T Gas ! Wawa Sheets 7-11 Royal Farms . The ONLY Gas Station's with Top Tear Gas 3 was hole in wall Mom/Pop's there main Sales are for selling Drug Bongs / Pipes & Cigs Stores , Stations seems to be Front , Tax Wright Off , Other Purposes... I would Not buy gas from these places Unless No choice that how run down the places Are ! So why Not the Big franchise Sell the Top Tear Gas ? I made phone calls to Some Agency For petroleum in USA I believe it was in Michigan , Chicago ? that is over the gas regulations asking Questions left messages with No return phone calls or response.. A few of my combos Have Power adders & I only fill up with same brand , I used to but Sunco , None around any more .
@Bandit Billy Looked into, was Curious about the E motor, A Motor & Battery to equal 700 Hp Plus 65 k & up
From my understanding of top tier gasoline, it has higher levels of “detergent” intended to help keep the engine clean. This alleges to keep the fuel system clean, and the combustion chambers as well. As I understand the formulation, this is an additive package to the base fuel, which is an E10 fuel, that does not contain any metal components, such as MMT, and will be components such as toluene or acetone. I’m sure they have proprietary formulas that have other compounds as well, that are intended to either keep carbon deposits from forming and sticking to the injectors before combustion and from forming during combustion and sticking to the combustion chambers and valves. One reason that you may not find it in a given area is that the major fuel companies claim that their products are already “clean”, think Shell and their advertising campaigns that have touted being high quality fuel with detergents. Another aspect is the commingling of fuel in the distribution system. In our area, most of the fuel coming through the Port of Albany is commingled, with the exception of Sunoco, unless that has changed in the last 5 to 10 years. This means that Mobil has the same fuel as the discount stations and the mom and pop shops. Two exceptions used to be Sunoco and the local chain Stewart’s, that were supplied by Sunoco. Again I cannot testify to the accuracy of this information anymore. My main concern is getting fuel from a high turnover station, so that I get fresh fuel. But I have reservations about buying fuel during or right after a fuel dump because it will stir up the stuff in the tank on the bottom. If I were to build an engine to go racing, I’d either buy racing gasoline in 55 gallon drums, or, because I like the smell of methanol in the morning, it smells like victory, I’d use methanol, again buying it in 55 gallon drums. My old Hilborns are set up to run methanol and other than the hoses being about 50 years old, they are ready to run. Hoses are cheap relatively…
I had ethanol gas reduce the rubber accelerator pump in a Carter BBD to goop within a couple months. The replacement was some kind of leather. No issues since. I don't mean this in a smug way but any of my cars that can be driven get driven as much as possible, so they don't sit for the ethanol to attack the other stuff. I'm currently burning 13 gallons a week in my T and was having to fill up my AA truck every few days while we were using it as a parts fetcher/scrap hauler. Weekender and summer cars are going to feel the burn sitting around... so drive 'em if you can!
Thank you for the response @Dave G in Gansevoort There are 3 fuel depo's /storage tanks 3 with in 20 air miles 1 in Manassas Va 2 in Fairfax Va , In my area so many people now they're getting two and three deliveries a day. @ big gas staton stores . I was buying 55 drums @ a Time I was using close to 8 gallons Being towed to water box, Start up burn out to 300 400 feet Back up , stage 1/4 click off . Tow back
Not a shit storm. Well, okay so I guess I ran on a little bit there. I tend to go overboard on this subject. Like I said, I lived in a research lab for a long time. The technicians I worked with used to just roll their eyes once I got going on a “technical discussion”. I guess it comes with the territory…
Oh, and I had real trouble trying to give a presentation to a general audience, keeping it under an hour long with enough time for questions and discussions.
The simple solution is configure your fuel system from the tank up to and through the carb to run on the fuel you have access to. Flatheads, for example, don't even need 87 octane so use ethanol compatible everything and rebuild the carb to function with ethanol mixed fuel and run the cheap stuff.
I've seen this referred to a couple of times now and I have to admit that it doesn't make any sense to me. The alcohol in gas will attack vulnerable components in the fuel system whether it is sitting or whether it is running, right? It is the exposure of the alcohol to the rubber that results in degradation, and it seems to me that degradation will occur whether the fuel is just sitting still or moving. Is that not correct?
One man’s S Storm is another man’s fun, I think threads like this shed light on facts, also how some people work around problems. Dan
Yes the alcohol will attack the rubber parts no matter what, however if E10 gas sits it can take on water also can cause corrosion of aluminum and steel. Personally I don’t run gas with alcohol in stuff not set up for e10 or more. Dan
Yes, although its not the ethanol that attacks the rubber and causes corrosion, its the fact that the ethanol contains bacteria which excrete acid, which is what attacks the rubber and corrodes metal. The longer the fuel is unused, the more the bacteria multiply in the fuel and the more acid they create. This is why this effect is reduced through regular use and thus fresh fuel is constantly going through the system. If cars are to be left over winter etc., or for an extended time, its best to either drain tank/fuel system or add a fuel stabiliser to the fuel in the last few weeks of use before layup. Here in UK, most of the classic car clubs and mags have done exhaustive tests, and pretty much all recommend only one product that seems to work, and that's Wagner Bactofin, which seems to do an effective job of reducing the effects of bacteria in ethanol fuels.
Where I live in Europe the best fuel I can get is 5 % Ethanol 98 Octane and that's not even available everywhere. No "No-Ethanol" anymore. As we pay per liter, a gallon costs about 7,50 $. You see, it could be even worse than 5,399.
I think because the aviation industry low lead is going to be safe for at least a few more years but at some point somebody that is in politics is going to get word that it is in fuel and then they are going to attack it left and right until it goes away. All I want them to do is to remove the ethanol out of regular (meaning run of the mill not necessarily low grade) gasoline and I will be a happy camper
Its already happening, faster than you think. There is but a single manufacturing source of TEL now for all 100LL AVGAS refinery supply, and the demand is reducing at a rate that once its uneconomic for that single source to continue making it, then there will be no more 100LL fuel refined. That's currently now less than 10 years away (as some countries have already declared a 2035 ban on its use) and I've seen mutterings from within aviation that say its likely worldwide refinery production of 100LL won't last beyond 2032. For those of us who have a big interest in big piston engine warbirds, and seeing them continue to fly, with currently no viable 100LL substitute on the immediate horizon, that's not a happy thought.
Yeah, but I deserve it! Like Joe Friday would say “just the facts, mam” A little more history. Sort of. Does anyone remember white gas, unleaded gasoline sold by Amoco before leaded gasoline was an issue? As I recall, it was about 100 octane, slightly higher I think. Anyway, it was all we used in our snowmobiles. Spark plugs lasted a lot longer using it. Looking back, I imagine that was because it having no TEL it didn’t foul the plugs. Used it for the stock class sleds, the modified sleds ran methanol and Clotz Nitro Blend oil, until methanol was not allowed. Still had to have a small can of the gas blend to start, and pickle the modified sleds however…
More expensive here in UK, currently £1.60/L for 98 SUL, which is £6.00/US Gall, so about US$8.00 per US gal.
and before US guys get too excited about that 98 Octane number, it's equivalent to 93 in the US rating system (AKI, vs RON that the rest of the world uses)
Ak Miller and Bruce Crower played around with propane/LNG powered hot rods. I had a duel fuel Bobcat that was great and there are lots of fork lifts out there powered by propane. Ford makes a duel fuel F-150 for fleet buyers. The USFS is a big customer. I had a wet feed hose on my 500 gallon propane tank to fill up the bbq tanks and the Bobcat. Co-op removed it saying insurance company required it. Last delivery of propane was $2.20 a gallon
Thank you Learned something,I knew about bacteria in diesel but didn’t know about bacteria in ethanol. This explains why people who don’t let their fuel sit don’t have problems. Excellent info.! Dan
My dad worked in the Valero Refinery plant for 35 years, so I pretty much grew up only using Valero fuel, which is Top Tier rated. Growing up he always stressed the importance of quality oils, fuels, and filtration, as well as maintenance intervals. I only use Top Tier fuels, top rated oils, and the highest quality filters.... like, I take that shit serious. Sure there's times when you need fuel and a Top Tier station isn't nearby or along the route, but I do put effort into trying to always buy the good stuff. If I see a tanker truck at the station, I go to a different station, but that's kind of goofy when you think about it... how would I know if a tanker truck drove away from refilling a station 3 minutes before I arrived? How would I know if the pump I'm using is sucking the sludge from the bottom of an empty tank? These days I try to get Chevron whenever I can. The main reason is due to the Techron additive thats already in their fuels. Every 5 or 10 tanks of 87 octane, I'll toss in some 93-octane. I don't know if it does anything beneficial, but I've been doing that for 30 years and I've never had a gummed up carburetor, bad fuel injector, or bad fuel pump... like ever. Another thing, atleast around here, is that most Top Tier stations aren't dumpy little gas stations. There's some shady ass stations across the country that I wouldn't even want to buy a coffee from, let alone get fuel. I've been everywhere in the U.S. and I feel we're pretty fortunate in Texas with better gas stations than the rest of the country. Yeah, I said it. Anyway, I've always used the good shit on everything I've ever owned. I change my fluids and filters a bit religiously, I put effort into the diet my vehicles get and it's never come to bite me in the ass. I've never experienced an engine failure, aside from race car stuff. Than again, I also don't know shit. You can use this link to find Top Tier fuels in your area... https://stationfinder.toptiergas.com/ There is also an app
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