I found that in my mower that the ethanol caused lubrication problems with the valves (Kohler 2 cylinder overhead valve engine). Had the valve guide pull out of the cylinder head. I switched to either nonethonal or I add a little 2 cycle oil if I can't get non ethanol gas. problem solved.
True (and I am one of them who is responsible for the up keep and maintenance on my dad's bone stock '49 Packard), but gasoline in the 1950's and 60's was a much different formula then it is today. Why would you expect your car to run right on a fuel formula that doesn't exist today? That is like expecting the punch cards from a 1960's IBM mainframe to work with your I-Pad. Update the fuel curve, timing, and fuel components for today's fuels. If you are so worried about originality that you can't change a fuel hose or a carb gasket, then donate the car to a museum and get a new hobby.
That's true. But it does have something to do with your hypothesis that modern cars work ok on modern fuel, because the fuel is always circulating, keeping it cool. The big difference is not circulation, it's the high pressure. Running at 40+ psi keeps the more volatile fuel from boiling.
To Squirrels point, and the earlier comments, vapor pressure is a huge concern, especially in low pressure fuel systems. Even across the United States there is a wide range of fuel formulas used, especially in the winter. The Northern Tier states get winter blend fuel that has a much higher vapor pressure then the fuel used in the summer or in southern states to aid in cold starting. The lower vapor pressure of summer blends is designed to help prevent vapor lock and lower evaporative emissions, but how many of us have taken the hot rod out after it's winter nap with a tank full of gas from the previous fall and soon found the engine running rough or vapor locked. It really had nothing to do with the Ethanol in the gas, but the entire formulation (and how it aged over the winter). Again, it comes down to doing the work and putting in the time to get your classic car running properly for the fuel being used. We get spoiled with modern cars being able to run on a very wide range of fuels, with the computer automatically making the adjustments. The computer for these old cars always was and continues to be between our ears.
My guess is "price fixing" or "profiteering", both of which are highly illegal, unless you are an oil company that is in bed with the government of the time. IMHO. Up here in the Great White North we are paying anywhere between $1.22 to $1.48/ litre(approx. 4l per gallon), depending which province you are in. Just about $6.00/ gallon for regular fuel. About $1.75/ litre for premium or about $7.00/ gallon? Just be glad you are not paying Canadian prices! And we wonder where all the Hot Rods have gone, if they are still in existance they are parked cuz the average guy can't afford to drive them.
While it is true that ethanol has a higher octane value, refineries compensate by using cheaper, lower octane gasoline stocks and count on the ethanol to raise the "gasohol" back to the nominal octane value.
Ethanol added to gasoline will increase the fuel consumption due to the reduced energy content of the ethanol........approximately 10% for E10. My modern car gets 31 mpg with straight gasoline, 27 mpg with E10. Also, E10 has a lower boiling point than straight gasoline. My 327 with Rochester FI (engine temp at 180F) will boil the E10 in the line while it's running, and stall out from fuel starvation. I have switched to LL100 and Rocket brand fuels (and a SS tank with a marine grade fuel pump) with zero problems.
At the risk of sounding political, if there's any profiteering going on there, it is being perpetrated by your government, in the form of a confiscatory gas tax. Can't blame oil companies for that. Yikes!!
You are likely totally right, up here when the price goes up all the oil companies raise their price the same day to the same amount per liter, nobody is different, to me that appears to be the oil companies are in communication with each other(price fixing). Maybe these rate changes are moderated or regulated by the government & the oil companies are told what to charge. I understand a large portion of our fuel dollar goes to pay for services like road/highway improvements, etc. I always just blamed the oil companies. There are a lot of people out there that know way more about this than me. Either way it is too FUCKING expensive!!!
I am under the impression that each CA province sets the retail price of gasoline which is why the price is the same at all service stations. Is that incorrect? Phil
Within each province the price varies city to city, town to town. I was recently on a trip from Saskatchewan to B.C., in Regina Sk. we were paying 1.25, In Calgary Ab. we paid 1.34, in Banff Ab. we paid 1.47, in Sycamouse BC, we paid 1.43 & in Kelowna BC. we paid 1.38(I think, by this time I wasn't really paying attention, just paying the price) in a 2 day time period. Again all the gas stations in a certain city/town were the same price. Competitors in other businesses don't have the same exact pricing on similar products, in my opinion the competition between the companies is what keeps the prices down. This is why I think price fixing is being practiced here. I haven't seen a gas war in 20 years. Again, there are way smarter people on this subject than me!! It just pisses me off & there is nothing that I/we can do about it.
Anything that will sit for more than a week at a time gets 100% gas in it around here. My 1955 IH tractor will get condensation in the fuel tank if you put the ethanol gas in it, doesn't happen with 100% gas. I use Stabil in the fall on the small engines which also only get 100% gas, but it didn't help my 2 year old weedeater. 2 years old and it won't crank, carb is stopped up. Had a riding mower sit for three years in the yard, no cover over it, put a hot battery on it and it cranked and ran just like it did before I parked it. I've been pumping gas out of my Lincoln and using it in the mowers all summer. I put Stabil in it two years ago when I parked it with nearly full tank. Figured I needed to get it used up before it went bad, so far it's burned fine in the mowers. Got it down to a little less than 1/4 tank now, going to put fresh gas in before I start it up with the new motor.
Everybody told me not to run ethanol gas through SU carbs on a non hamb ride. Everybody except the SU tech guy l called. The carbs were just rebuilt with ethanol comparable kits. The tech fellow said several things mentioned above; buy from known high volume station, if the engine is not run on at least a twice a weak for a good run, add stabilizer, fill in smaller quantities to keep fresh fuel in the tank. If your vehicle is going to sit, shut the fuel off and run the carb/s dry. As for how your car starts, runs and drives, timeit with a vacuum gauge for highest vacuum at idle with a steady needle. If it pings retard the timing a degree or two or till the ping disappears. Lower floats a 32nd or so to allow for expansion in high temp. Typically flame front on modern blends is slower, whoomph, instead of bang. This means you need to light it off sooner to get optimum push out of the weaker explosion so timing should be advanced from factory settings. My engine like 6° btdc instead of the factory's TDC setting. I have been alternating fillups one full tank of 10% ethanol, next at half tank fill with non meth. Then a half tank of ethanol. Going on a long road trip, looking for non ethanol every refill. Pain in the butt but no plug or carb issues.
Sorry to hijack this thread with my rant. I use Shell V-power, I was told it has 0% ethanol. The 331 & Radial T/A's seem to love it!
I did not read the whole thread but here is what I have found. I use a few ounces of Marvel Mystery oil in each and every fill up. It tends to lessen the effects of the Alcohol in the fuel. If you experience pinging use Lucas Octain booster, This shit really works.
For my off topic bigblock in my avatar is a 140,000 non rebuilt motor. I decided to use premium in my car. Made a 1200 round trip. It hesitated while going down the road at least 9 times. Even on Mitsubishi Motorway in Bloomington Illinios. It also sputtered right before it turned over 140,000 miles. Maybe that`s why it sputtered. Maybe my car is trying to tell me something. Put the cheap ethanol blend back in it and it runs with no hesitation. That`s all I have ever used since it came out.
Up here in this little corner of IL, its hard to find what they call 100% gas, but when you find it, expect to pay as least 40 cents a gallon more, for the same octane rating. There is definitely a huge difference between the winter fuel, and the summer fuel here. When you drive something year around here, you are more then ready for the new season's fuel. It really sucks if the weather is colder or warmer then the fuel is blended for. My coupe has an early 90s simple EFI on it. We recently took a trip down through TN and KY, mostly on non-interstate roads. We had spend a couple days in one area of TN where 100% gas was available. I filled up with the 87 octane rated 100% gas for 3 days in a row (probably well over 200 miles each day, or about 3/4 tank full each fillup). The car seemed to have a bit more power through the mountains of TN then it did on the 10%, but mileage was the same. I'm sure the computer adapted for the differences in the fuel. For the nearly 60 cents a gallon difference, it was not worth the extra cost. If I had to dive the mountains every day, and could find the 100% at a closer cost then the station we were buying at, I might have been tempted to continue to use the 100%.. I offer little experience with a carbed vehicle, the last carbed vehicle left here in 2011, and 100% gas was not available then. Gene
A few of the local Casey’s in SE Iowa have 91 octane with no ethanol, however one of the stations shares one nozzle for all grades, so if you only put in a few gallons then you run the chance of putting in a lower grade with ethanol.
All we have here is E10. All I run is E10 (except in the diesel car). Two carbs on one, two carbs on another, and EFI on one. I have had zero issues with any of them. They are all built, tuned (and/or programmed) for E10. The future is now. Get on board, or get left behind.
Your statement is from Engine Builder and it's full of mistakes..Lower RVP is better in hot temperatures and fuel injection pressures on more like 50 psi on port injection,..
My contribution is instead of bitching about the "quality" of today's fuel in older cars, guys should modify (imagine that) their fuel systems, ignition systems and induction systems to work WITH today's fuels.
I'm using 10% ethanol premium 93 octane in both my SBC powered 31 Hiboy roadster and my SBF powered 40 coupe, with 2X4 Edel 500s on SBC and 1x4 Holley 600 on SBF, along with a liberal dose of Sta Bil 360*, which is formulated for such use. So far, so good on both. I use the 90 octane non ethanol with regular Sta Bil in my small engine stuff for lawn care, gen. etc. My understanding is that the ethanol is added to the gasoline when it goes into the tanker truck, as it can be a problem if put in the big storage tanks or in the pipelines. As a consequence the "recreational" 90 octane is simply the same as the 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel, only without the ethanol added, which gives it an extra 3 points of octane. Part of the additional cost for pure gasoline is simply "because they can" and part of it is because the oil companies pay less for the ethanol they add than the gas it replaces because we, the taxpayers, thru the US government paying a subsidy to the manufacturers of the ethanol from the tax money you and I pay.
I honestly haven't had any issues with newer fuels with my cars new or old lately. My 10.2:1 383 Chrysler is finnicky, and only likes to run on 93 without pinging, but will happily eat 91 if that's what's for dinner. Years ago when I was a po' college kid I ran 87 through it, and wasted every ring in the engine doing it. But aside form that, I haven't had any issues with ethanol content in anything. Honestly, I'm more concerned about the corrosive nature of the alcohol on aluminum parts and gaskets than I am with detonation. I use newer electric fuel pumps that are rated for today's gas with alcohol, keep rubber to a minimum in the fuel system, and replaced my gaskets with newer styles and have never had an issue.
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