GASSER MUST HAVES and cant haves?

For the cross ram info, the author there completely forgot about the Max Wedge and Hemi intakes in '62-'65.
By the time the Chevy 302 Trans Am cross ram was developed, cross rams were old news.

-Brad

 

The F-Troop car ran outlaw events as it was not Gas Class legal, and they knew that. And a Kellison would not have been legal as a Gas Class car since it was not an automobile - it was a Kit Car. Rules stated; Must have a Coupe or Sedan body manufactured by an American Automobile Manufacturer. Any Foreign Coupe or Sedan may compete in this division as long as it meets all of the class requirements; a minimum of 92" stock wheelbase, fenders, frame etc. (later amended to let 90" Anglia's run with a non supercharged Small Block, and then eventually in Supercharged classes)
The Kellison, if built to the rules would have been a M/SP class car.

 

I thought it was a pretty common practice to move the front axel forward a couple inches when Installing solid axels?

 

Did I read somewhere that George simply put the Mustang body on the chassis of his Malco Willys when he picked up sponsorship by Ford?

-Brad

 

Just interested, not trying to piss gasoline on a fire here; what year rule book does that come out of?

-Brad

 

That was pretty common in other classes like A/Fx, etc., but Gas class didn't allow wheelbase changes, and the couple who tried it were forced to run in the Altered class until they changed back.

 

Yes! Couple reasons for that. First it was easier to just reuse the old Willys body; and second the rules required a stock frame so a Mustang being unibody would have been a lot of work to handle that big Ford engine!

 

I'm not saying George wasn't pressured into it,as Ford would have been tough to say no to at the time.
I'm also not giving the fastback Mustang all the credit,although the aero coefficient of drag of a late '60's Mustang has to be at least a little slipperier than an early '30's Willys.
I am however throwing my weight behind the fact that every time a major auto manufacturer gets behind a specific racing class things go in this order:
1: Class starts out relatively fair,with a somewhat even playing field that even the little guy can try to get a piece of

2: Large manufacturer takes notice,begins funneling cash to select racers

3: The gap between the elite in class and the middle of the road,working class guys becomes absolutely huge,aforementioned manufacturer ends up owning the class for a year or two

4:Said manufacturer gets bored/pursues other interests/cuts racing budget/etc,and drops out of class,and basically guts the series that they have priced out of reach for the average Joe.

Gassers,Indycar,CanAm.....all were built up,then effed up by manufacturer involvement.
Don't even get me started on what
Winston Cup racing was and should still be,but has now become....Ugh...


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Hotroddon, you are correct and I agree that the Kellison would have been able to run in M/SP. Kanners ran a special bodied car at Indy when he won eliminator in 67, with a 57 Vette chassis allegedly and the 427 out of Ron Readers 57 Vette. I suppose the next question is how they would have run in 68 when NHRA did away with M/SP and dumped those cars into the gas classes for the most part. I guess I would have to re-read the rule book on that question. NHRA got a little loose with the rules in 68 (including tube chassis-square I believe), so little would surprise me.-Jim

 

And yes,there was that '64-1/2 mustang coupe gasser ripping around Ohio at one point too,powered by I believe a 265ci sbc with a 4-71,called "the Numismatist II".....whatever the hell that is...Pretty nasty little car,looks like it would have been a handful.

That brings me to another point:I think the "Gasser Wars" book should be required reading for anyone on this thread...one of the best photographic accounts of east coast Gassers ever compiled,and at times a bit of an eye opener.

Scott


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What about sitting the body back on the frame a inch or two? That wouldn't change the wheel base and wouldn't require body modes other than finessing the rear wheel opening radius. Original body, original wheel base. I haven't ever read anything about original mounting points having to be used. But I don't recall any reference to original wheel base in the NHRA gasser class rule book ether.

Maybe some one would be kind enough to post a reference?

 

That falls under altering the wheelbase;it's still altering it in relation to the body.It doesn't shorten or lengthen it,but skews the weight bias.


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to my knowledge in NHRA you weren't allowed to move forward backwards or anyway that started with FX classes modified production you were allowed to run any intake and carb except supermodified classes which were limited one carb and size depending on the class and limited porting i ran d/mp and c/sm and there was a cut off for the year in sm because they wanted new model cars

 

Think that was Al Lynch's car.

 

That thing must have been nearly a new car when it got the torch!
Do you know how long it ran,what progression of engines it went through,all the good stuff...?It looked like it had a stock Willys axle under it too in photos I have seen.Is that correct?


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NO - that was Never Legal - all the way to the end of the classes.

Brad, it was in for many years, I know it was in the '65 rule book and I think it stayed all the way to the end.
The '56 rule book did not engine relocation at all by the way

"M/SP is reserved for Custom Built, Special, Modified, and/or re-powered production sports cars. These classes will include fiberglass-bodied cars that are classified as Sports Cars"
I can't find my 68 rule book, but the 71 version does allow Sports Cars in Gas, since M/SP was gone. But they were more strict on what a Sports Car was, I think it had to be from an automobile manufacturer by then.
As for the square tube frame, yes that was legal by '68, when my car was built. It still had to maintain stock wheelbase though.

 

Since my car does have the front axel moved forward a couple inches wonder if that would be an issue running in the "new" nostalgia gasser groups? As long as it "looks" right and all.

 

I think moving the body would also have fallen under the rule that only allowed minor customization. A body could be chopped or channeled 4", but not both. Only 4" total, so you either did 2" each, or 4" of chop or channel.

 

It all comes down too how said "nostalgia groups" set the rules. What was legal in NHRA in 1968 may not of been in 1965.

 

I just read on Byron's site that engine relocation wasn't allowed up to '59.
It also said the square tube frames were allowed because of modern unibody cars coming into the class.

-Brad

 

I've only seen two pictures of Al Lynch's car, and both appeared he either had a lot of drop in a axle if it had a straight axle, or it used stock type front suspension. I guess it could also have been put on a frame from another vehicle like Ohio George's Mustang.
In Larry Davis' book there's a picture of Al's Mustang that shows the collector poking out the side of the front fender, behind the wheelwell. Seems it was low enough to not allow the collector to be as low as an axle would allow.

 

Hotroddon, I am sure of the change from M/SP to gas in 68 as we were building a 2nd car to run in M/SP in 67 but did not finish until spring of 68 so we ran gas.

As to the Kellison I am sure it could run in M/SP depending on the chassis in 67 and earlier although I cannot find the rules right now either. The only thing I may question on second thought is the round tube chassis which I do not believe it was allowed in M/SP. When I questioned Ron Reader (owner of Midwest Auto) on Kanners with his special bodied AM/SP at Indy in 67 and why they referred to the car as a Vette he told me it was due to the chassis had some 57 Vette DNA or pieces. Ron told me when the ran into problems with their BM/SP Vette they pulled the engine and put it in Kanners special "57 Vette" and he ran it to a class win and eliminator win.

I cannot think of a M/SP car in this era with a round tube chassis. -Jim

 

The 10% setback wasn't in the rule book before then, but it was done often. This is one of those rules that evolved due to racers relocating their engines back and higher, so it had to eventually be addressed; thus the rule. Another attempt to keep things equal among those who changed things radically.
Prior to the seat location, and stock interior rules, many guys gutted their cars and relocated their seats also. Lots of crazy no holds barred things were done in the early years, which required NHRA to add rules to specifically tell racers what they couldn't do.

 

The Cobra Draggin Snakes all had round tube chassis - STOCK! and ran in M/SP

 

Al Lynch did run the Numismatist( coin collector) 65 Mustang in C/GS it was a totaled out car and he ran a body shop. It ran with a 287ci. SBC and a 6-71. It ran the stock front suspension and the article said a CAE unit was on the to do list.

MELTDOWN DRAGS
JULY 19-20 2014

 

This was in the January 66 rodder and super stock.

MELTDOWN DRAGS
JULY 19-20 2014

 

Why don't you just ask whatever group you claim to be thinking of joining?
I mean,instead of asking a snotty,pointed question on an Internet forum?I think you need to go wash some of that sand out of your vagina and start trying to be a big boy.
You don't have to be that kid who got punched out in school every day for the rest of your life.But if you want abuse,you're sure to get it around here if you keep intentionally starting fires.
Whoever said "there's no such thing as bad attention" was wrong.You keep craving it,but all you're drawing down upon yourself is hatred and contempt.Please throttle it back with your pissy,bitchy little comments.Nobody asked for that shit.Its a forum for old hot rods,not Menopausal women.


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the 1956 Rules specifically stated ENGINE MAY NOT BE RELOCATED by 65 the 10% rule was in the books.
INTERIORS MAY NOT BE GUTTED. MUST RUN FULL UPHOLSTERY and the 65 book took it even further saying EQUIVALENT TO FACTORY SPECIFICATIONS. FLOOR MATS OPTIONAL. BUCKET SEATS MAY REPLACE STOCK SEATS (TWO REQUIRED) ONLY IF THE ARE FULLY UPHOLSTERED.REAR SEATS ARE OPTIONAL. FACTORY TYPE UPHOLSTERY AND/OR PANELING MUST BE USED IN LIEU OF THE ABOVE

 

Holy shit.Thats awesome.


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Thanks! I may have that issue, so now I gotta go dig through the stacks to read it again!

I have a question that I noticed in some modern nostalgia gasser groups rules. I see some don't allow "bug catcher" style scoops, which my Falcon has. I figured I could easily pull it off if need be, but I did do some homework before I chose this scoop.
I found several pictures from the late 60's of gassers running these bug catcher scoops, including the Cottreil & Reichard AA/GS Austin A40, and Jack Merkel's '33 Willys. So I didn't chose it without finding examples first.
I know the Hilborn style are most commonly seen, but is the bug catcher not allowed because some groups want to restrict their cars toward earlier mid 60's gassers?