Gassers...Successful Suspension Designs, Theories, or Pics...Lets Discuss!!

Well my wife and I have decided to go in a different direction with our '61 Buick Skylark. She would really like a real gasser and the Buick is a good platform to work off of.

Our plans are to change the rear axle, transmission, and straight front axle. At some point a 425 Nailhead will be plopped in.

What I would like to know from you guys is the proven recipe for a good performing, period styled, suspension with preferred axle choice, your choice of transmission, traction bars, tires, leafs or coils and what ever else you would like to share with us.

Pics would be great also.

Lets discuss this. We could learn alot from this topic.




BloodyKnuckles

 

You've been at this for a while Old Man, so I don't think I should have to tell you that a couple pics of the car at hand will always help get people into the topic. Throw some up of your '61 and some cars that influence your dream.




Anyhow, read the Signature.

 

and what you are going to do with it??

 

Way back when ,when i ran gas class i had stock front end with90/10 shocks in front and 50/50 rear shocks.Tube axles do not make a gasser.

 

How "real" and what period are you shooting for? Early street coupe gassers, before '62 are a completely different animal than their strip only later cousins.

Terry

 

I am aware that "tube axles don't make a gasser" but stock Skylark's have a bastard front setup that is difficult to find replacement parts and I don't care to rebuild it.

The straight axle I have is an authentic axle that was used in a '62 ChevyII that was raced back in the day. It is a dropped tube which I like because it will keep it within the height I would like to be.

This car will be run at the track periodically but will not be a full on race car. Even with that said I am still very interested in suspension design with performance in mind.





BloodyKnuckles

 

I'm sorry I should have stated that this isn't really about what car I'm building right now but more about what works.



BloodyKnuckles

 

BTTT for the morning guys.



BloodyKnuckles

 

Finally... I'm so tired of seeing and hearing that gassers have to have a straight axle

 

I started this thread a while back and thought it would take off being that there are so many people "tired" of straight axled gassers;

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268773


I'm not interested in BS opinions but I would love to have an educated discussion on what suspensions work and why.



BloodyKnuckles

 

Well, the two lane blacktop car had 4 link front, I think

There's 4 link
hairpin
parallel leaf
quarter eliptical

What works is dependent on the car. I would think that a parallel leaf setup would be better for a heavier car. If it's pretty light a transverse leaf is fine. Considering that you are going to be driving it on the street, I would probably run a parallel leaf setup, because it will help to reduce body roll. At least it does in my car, Some long ladder bars would help that too.

 

I like the transverse spring setup and thought that a sway bar attached to the axle would help in body roll. Have you seen someone use a sway bar on a transverse front end?



BloodyKnuckles

 

Not sure if this is the kind of "what works" comment you are looking for, but here goes...

If you are one of the guys that does not want to go the aftermarket route, AND wants to keep it as pre-65 as possible, the Econoline is a great choice. But, the best stopping one I've found is the Super Duty Econoline. It has huge drum brakes compared to the E-100 set up. My 57 is pretty heavy, but with this brake set up, a proportioning valve, and a power booster, panic stops or stopping at over 100 mph is no problem. I even used the stock length springs, which are much longer than the Speedway springs. I think they ride nicer. Anyways, just a suggestion for those that want to avoid discs, but still want to stop.

As far as rear end set ups, a few old timers from my club talked me into using what they called a "super stock dodge" trick. When rebuilding the rear leaf springs, we used a few extra leafs, and instead of staggering them from top to bottom, they are all the same length on the front side of the rear axle. The only other mod to the 9" rear was relocating the HD shocks. The car really plants well now, has no wheel hop, and stands up some in the back on the launch and stays straight. I've used this set up for many years now and I'm pretty happy with it.

There sure seems to be a lot of gassers on the road these days, this thread should have great ideas we all could learn from.

 

If it was a street/strip car with leaf springs, a lot of them ran slapper bars very successfully. In fact, I think a lot of strip only cars used this setup. Other strip only cars ran some sort of ladderbar setup (rectangular tubing or round tube). If you ran leaf springs they really needed some sort of slider or floater setup, but they didn't always get them. Before coilovers you saw a lot of light weight coil springs (Corvair) with Air lift bags in them to preload the suspension. When Chrysler started releasing their SuperStock suspension technology, a LOT of racers used it, on all brands of racers. I don't remember much 4 link stuff before Grumps Vega, but I'll bet it was out there.

Front end, like everyone says balljoint spacers and 90/10 (or worn out) shocks to let the frontend come up for weight transfer.

The tire compounds take care of a lot of the problems that people were trying to solve with weight transfer back in the 60's. I don't think you'd have to have the 90/10's now days.

Off for coffee,
Larry T

 

I've got the suspension done on the gasser I'm building ('57 Chevy 2dr Handyman wagon)

Stock front suspension with 6cylinder coil springs to get the nose in the air. 'glass fenders, no inner fenders, no bumper, no hood, hood spring, battery and fiberglass doors lighten the load A LOT, and let the springs stretch out. I may have to go to ball joint spacers to make sure I've got enough travel on the control arms.

The rear is a Mopar-style "Leaf Link" suspension. Front of the springs, between axle and spring eye, have a clamp at every leaf. No clamps behind the housing. This in effect makes the front of the leaf spring a solid link, while letting the unclamped portion of the spring do all the suspension travel.

A tube mount is on top of the housing, running to mounting points on the frame. Same as the top bars on a 4-bar set-up.

The housing connects to the springs with a "floating" mount that pivots, allowing the geometry to be maintained while the suspension goes through its range of motion.

To dial in the suspension, there are two mounting points where the front of the spring meets the chassis, three where the front upper bar meets the chassis, two where the bar mounts to the top of the axle housing, and three where the axle housing mounts to the springs, plus pinion angle. With all that adjustability, I can get real close to the instant center, make the tires plant, and raise the front tire off the ground just a couple inches (more than that on the launch is wasting time). It's fully tunable like a modern 4-link, but MUCH cheaper, as you only need 4 expensive heim joints for the upper bars. A true 4-link system requires 10 heims (and the threaded inserts), plus coil over shocks.

I did a full story for it in Hot Rod Deluxe magazine last year, and you can also get some more tech info from the Mopar Performance Chassis book.

-Brad

 

My henry j has leaf spring rear suspension with ladder bars, no floater. I didn't do anything special with it. The bars I used are some old lakewoods that clamp to the rear end housing. The leaf springs are as stock as they come, original j springs with stock shocks. I don't have any trouble with them. I just make sure that when I set up the ladder bars, the travel of their radius closely matched the travel of the axle on the springs. It has several inches of travel and doesn't seem to bind. I have more trouble with the tires rubbing on the quarter panel radius. The bars don't slip on the housing either.

From what I understand. I think that a long ladder bar would be a lot better because the travel radius will be a lot more straight and should be easier to line up with the spring travel. Also a long ladder bar that extends closer to the front of the car,( in front of the center of balance) will exert the energy of the housing in an upward motion, through the front traction bar perches, on the front to help lift the front of the car. A short traction bar will make the rear of the car hump up a little.

 

I'm not familiar with this, but it may have been done before. I'm not as familiar with the transverse front end as I am with a parallel leaf.

 

one more thing. if you want vintage disc brakes, a 64-67 volvo 122s front disc setup almost bolts onto a willys spindle.

 

Keep weight to a minimum! Especially unsprung mass, which would include the axle, spindles, and wheels. And get the weight proportioned toward the rear as much as possible. A little engine setback is a good way to do this, and looks right on an early drag car.

Keep an eye on your steering design. I believe Mort here did an excellent Tech writeup on how to avoid bump steer. There are a lot of recommendations on caster, but ultimately it will be what you are comfortable with. Be prepared to shim the axle to fine-tune it once it's on the road.

As for making it hook, the biggest thing you'll be concerned with is axle windup. You can run slapper bars, or do an old Mopar trick - tightly bind the leaf sections forward of the axle, and remove the leaf bindings behind it. This will allow the front of the spring to remain straight, and the rear of the spring can flex, which means it won't be fighting the front of the spring for tension.

Move the wheels forward from stock.

I don't know what yours looks like, but here's a '61 Skylark for those that aren't familiar with them.

 

I havr this set up on my 48 Austin It works good. Not real sure it will work on yours because of how much your car heighs.....

 

That's pretty much what BloodyKnuckles looks like except it black with a Landau type roof on it. There is a great deal of good info coming in. I know I am learning some shit just popping in. Here is a pic of his.

 

64-67 volvo 122s front disc setup

And the Volvo takes the 4-1/2" Ford/Chrysler wheel.

Remember that gassers were allowed up to 10% of the wheelbase engine set-back, measured from the front spark plug of the original engine. IIRC yours is 112" - you can move the engine back 11", which is huge.
With the distributor in back you may want to consider a "dent" (embed an old wash tub or 1/2 bike gas tank) in the firewall for more clearance.
The larger bellhousing isn't likely to clear the firewall recess, either - "borrow" one from a bigger car, or just make a new 18 gauge outline and move the existing back under the dash.
Transmission: I'd run automatic just to reduce launch shock and make the whole thing easier. 1st choice: Super Turbine 400 (original to late model 425) with dual-pitch converter. Launch at high stall, change to low stall increase trap speed, back to high stall with a brake light switch to unhook the engine when you back down in the traps.
Before you figure out the front axle, take a look at where your pan sump will be.

 

As for Skylarks as drag cars this one I like alot;




Thanks for all the reading and info so far guys. It's been very enlightening.



BloodyKnuckles

 

I wonder if you could get a hold of the guy/gal that owns that thing and pick his brain on his setup. That would probably work wonders in terms of zeroing in on the correct set up for this particular application. And I bet he has a Nasty 425 under that hood too!

 

+1 To the econline advise. Nice brakes, easy to find, and I rebuilt mine for $150 using parts from NAPA.

I can attest that having the nose in the air makes it hook a little better, even on the streets. Plus the axle usually shaves some weight over the IFS stuff.

 

we had great luck with a chevy pickup straight axle and late model disc brakes. Lots of leaves and sturdy shocks. In the rear, went with the mopar leaf theory and ladder bars. looks very vintage. I would definitely go with the switch pitch transmission. My bias is to go with an Olds diff. Probably 57/58 to get narrow. Fenderwell headers! ENJOY and post up the pics as you build it.

 

Man, I love what I have read so far. This is all great info. I like to hear what works for different people.

Thanks for contributing guys. Keep it coming.


BloodyKnuckles

 

good reading here but that squirrel on the trunk is funny, all it needs is a wheel to run on...lol

 

Dude that's hilarious!!! I never noticed that before. It looks just like a squirrel!




BloodyKnuckles

 

That's Ron's lunch on the trunk. He's one back wood son of a bitch!