Technical Get that electric fan outa there

Can anyone chime in on the use of the Drake sealed bearing unit..... fitment, likes, dislikes. etc.

 

Just wanna mention that the ratio of displacement to material in that block means less tolerance of heat.
Stuffing air through a Roots is a heat booster.
Soooo something is working well.

 

Not sure ya got the room, but if you end up with a 2 pulley and a separate fan gig I have 2 or 3 of those floating around.

 

I think most of us, including me, would agree that a mechanical fan is the preferred option......... if it will fit.
The customised electric version in the thread I linked is an option if mechanical just won't work. It seemed to get decent responses back in 2007 when it was first posted. Take extra notice of the first reply (post #2).
Here is the link again: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/electric-fans-are-ugly-tech.162030/

 

Very interested, thank you
will be taking some dimension to see if it’s feasible and if so will get back to you

 

The “old timey” electric fan is a hell of a lot better than leaving all the ugly plastic showing if a person has to run an electric one.

 

Sorry Lloyd, but there's no such thing as free horsepower. If a mechanical fan takes 30 hp to turn it, an electrical fan moving the same amount of air will require the same amount of hp, you just transfer the load to the alternator.

 

Ok, so I have three inches from the fwd edge of the lower pulley to the radiator
and 3 1/2 inches from the fwd edge of the water pump pulleys to the rad core

Looks like there is plenty of adjustment left on the gen/alt bracket

Other considerations is moving the radiator forward is the hood or bonnet for yinz uk and down under fellows.



The hood is rolled aluminum but would consider using a model A top half but I believe they may be shorter.

 

Hush your dirty little mouth! Why ya gotta say bad things like that? And I usually throw the alternator belt when I get on it, so it all works out! Lmao!

 

Did any pre '64 American cars come from the factory equipped with electric fans or aluminum radiators?

Personally I'm not a fan (excuse the pun) of electric fans on traditional hot rods or customs but if it was necessary to keep the car cool I think I would at least use a hood to hid it. HRP

 

Some thoughts here along with some questions. As I have said, I’m not super versed in late flatheads. Since this engine was dressed up to look earlier, would earlier bits fit on the front of this engine? We already have the 2 bolt cover, so will a 59 crank pulley work in this setup? Will 37-48 water pumps jive with a later block? If so, this will give more room across the board.

 

I suppose that ***umes the electric fan is on all of the time, which it is not. Unlike the mechanical fan the electric is only on when the engine needs the cooling, and you can turn it off with a simple toggle switch when maximum power is required.

 

This is true; but it's still got to recharge that battery at some point. The laws of physics can be ignored, but not broken. Or, you could run a total loss battery system and just recharge it when you get home!

 

One of Flex-a-Lites largest fans moves 3000CFM and requires 20 amps. Power(in watts) = the voltage times the amps.
So 12V times 20 amps = 240 watts which is equivalent to 0.321845hp

 

Something tells me you're engineering is off. For one thing, you're calculation ***umes 100% efficiency, which nothing ever is. And somebody else already posted that 30 hp to turn the fan seemed excessive; I was just going with Lloyd's figures. The bottom line is there is no such thing as free horsepower, the laws of physics rule. It's possible the electric fan is more efficient than a mechanical fan (seems doubtful to me, but I won't argue it without any facts), but if you think there is that large of a difference in efficiency from .3 horsepower to 30, that's OK, you go right on thinking that way.

 

A generator and/or alternator turns at a constant rate regardless whether the cooling system
is mechanical, electrical or none. I think were talking about limiting hp loss over the
engines uncooled baseline, not any gains.
I will take a known .3 loss over an unknown quan***y.

 

I’m thinkin with a 30 hp saving on my 40 hp model A Tudor is a no brainer
Get that fan outa there!
Just do like the modern cars and shut down at the red lights

 

The thing is that a fan is usually only needed at low speed, say 35mph or less (unless you've messed up the cooling system design).
A mechanical fan is in use all the time, doing a good job in bumper to bumper traffic, and doing a horrible job wasting power while rolling down the highway, even more so during high speed racing. An electric fan only has to run when needed, and that's usually in situations when you have no use for a lot of engine power - sure, you can go full throttle from standstill but four seconds later you'll be moving so fast the fan doesn't have to run (although it may take a bit more time for it to find that out). Yes, you have used power to make the electricity, but all of that was while the fan was running if your charging system is good enough (you're not pulling anything from the battery if the charging system is keeping the system at 14V) so once the fan switches off you aren't wasting any power on the fan.

Anyway. The hamb isn't about how to build the most efficient car. It's about building cars that looks good. If you feel that a mechanical fan has the right look for your car you should indeed put one in there if you can.

 

Simple theory on horsepower losses with a mechanical fan?

Both a mechanical and an electric fan do their job at lower speeds or at a stand-still. An electric fan will run at it's optimum level no matter what rpm the engine is doing. A mechanical fan will have it's operational speed set via pulley size to make it work at low engine rpm. That's the simple bit.

Now lets look at what happens when the vehicle is moving along at speeds that will force enough air through the radiator for cooling, and no fan is required. The electric fan has switched off. That's good, and will not be using any power at all. The mechanical fan is still spinning away at whatever rotational speed it attains when the engine is doing say 2800 rpm. The actual fan blades are encountering a high level of drag due to the higher speed they are moving through the air. Remember, as speed increases x 2, the resistance/drag will increase by the speed cubed. That is where a mechanical fan can drag up to 30 or 40 horsepower out of your engine. And the faster you go, the worse it gets.
A clutch fan or a flex fan will help limit these losses at higher engine rpm.

Ask the LSR guys why they try not to run mechanical fans out on the salt............

Mechanical fan still ticks the box when it comes to our style cars.

 

Lol that's my way of thinking. If I had 700 horsepower it wouldn't matter. But I might have 250? So any gain is just that. I know it's not traditional, but I also know there are 1000's of street rods hiding in this forum, and an untold number of cars that never see the road. Ya got @HOTRODPRIMER just a few posts up talking about electric fans and aluminum radiators not being pre 64, but to the best of my recollection, his wagon has a late model engine and manual transmission, all for the benefit of drivability. I can flip a switch and turn my fan off. Only thing left in my car that's pulling power is the ignition system, and the lights. 12v going to the God forsaken 700R4 that's about to come out, but that's it.

 

Sorry man I apologize

 

I've got the industrial strength fan that bolts on that hub out in the garage.
That one was on a flathead that was used on a wind machine in an orchard with a 12 ft wood prop on it.

The issue on my 48 is that on the 292 just as on the 250 the fan is way down there several inches lower than it would be on a 216.
This being the before photo from tthe day I picked up the 292.


this being a 216 from the net

 

Sitting in the breakdown lane in I-10, in Phoenix, AZ, with vapor lock, is traditional...

 

I can give you a few more data points for comparison. I am using a late 8ba flattie with a mechanical 6 blade truck fan, the stock 5/8" wide crank pully, Drake truck pumps, a Superior aluminum rad in a '32 shell, alternator and running the stock hood. It does fit but is tighter than I would like. There is only 1/4" clearance between the crank pulley and the fan blades. In my preliminary mock-up, I had about the same clearance between the rad and fan blades. Not enough but when I re***emble the car, I'm confident I can move the rad deeper into the shell without too much trouble. In theory, the fan will flex away from the crank pulley.
Nothing happens too fast around here but I'll let you know how it works when its back together.

 

Y’all just trying to put too big a engine in those little cars. Need to get a smaller engine or a bigger car. Always wanting something different. That’s hot rodding!

Mine has a clutch fan, and I have probably 4” between it and the radiator, but mine has a Bob Hope length nose. Couldn’t do that with those little 30’s cars unless half the engine was in the car with ya….

 

Interesting how people were able to drive these old cars in hot weather before electric fans.

like @Moriarity my old junk never gets hot and not an electric fan in sight….

 

Another post from where "summer is a few weeks of poor ice fishing". <wink>

Ethanol in the fuel changed the boiling point of gasoline. On my 2020 trip to Lead Ain't Dead (Dewey, OK - via AZ, NM and TX), I only saw 2 gas stations that sold ethanol free gasoline.

Traditional "purity" is OK if you can live with the consequences (i.e. Not travel in hot weather). I've lived long enough to get congestive heart failure, I am not signing up for getting vapor lock in Rattlesnake Crossing, TX.

There are ways to work around the problem (not totally solve the problem), but, not all are traditional (I am close to my "deleted comment quota").
EDIT: I am running a multi-blade flex fan
Russ

 

Ok, you obviously have spent some time in northern Alberta? Hopefully I can shovel my way out of my igloo to send this message via dogsled to respond to your asinine comment.

I forgot to mention our snowmobiles run on ethanol fuel…