Technical Getting the front end squared away...

OK....flame me if you must but I need power steering on my hot rod...
Years ago it didn't bother me that it was hard to steer when parking it but I wear an older mans clothes now and I need some help

One problem is tho is that I don't have an endless bank account so fancy, expensive gadgets are not an option so what are some of the ways that I can accomplish this...
Thanx for any help given

 

Narrow rubber, bigger steering wheel.

Having said that, I can park one handed in my roadster, so you might have some other kooky stuff going on in your suspension/ steering geometry that needs attention. Could be as simple as the pitman arm length.

 

And just maybe my 64 year old arms and arthritis in my shoulder too Just sayin...

 

Depends on your steering set up cross steer or traditional ?

 

Well...I'm not sure exactly what I have...how do I tell...what's the difference...???

 

From your other thread I see it is side steer, probably Mustang.

 

I'm 70 and can still drive my coupe with the 525 box. But make sure the king pins and tie rods have plenty of grease. Also a manual rack might help you. If you have a mustang box your going to have to do some remodeling. As said a larger steering wheel narrow tires and correct air pressure will help. At one time I had a 59 Impala wheel on mine. I could steer one handed. But it looked like a bus wheel in the small cab.

 

I have a Mustang side-steer box in my coupester and it's easy one-hand parking. As has been said, show some details of your setup and perhaps some suggestions can be made for an easy fix that does not include adding power.

 

I second the thought of
New wheels and tires it would help a lot. Those look like 15x8 wheels?
Put a 15x4 or 5 inch wide wheel up front and a narrow ribbed tire maybe a 185 off a old VW, it would not only cut down the turning resistance it would look even better.
as for cost it would cost the same or less than rigging up a power steering set up
power box, 2 hoses, pump, belt, pulley, brackets, pitman arm.
Godspeed
MrC.

 

post some close up pics of suspension, steering column, etc.

 

Sometimes a simple caster adjustment could make a noticeable improvement. More caster will make it track better going down the road, but can make it harder to turn the wheel at low speed or when stopped. With too much caster, when you turn the wheels you also end up slightly lifting the weight of the front of the vehicle.

 

Well to get back to your quest for help we really do need to see what it is you have already. Years ago I adapted Ford's power assist to a cross steer unit for a customer. It worked fine. On a drag link set up it would be in your face and it's not pretty but then what is on an open wheel Hot Rod? I'm sure you already know about Rack an Pinion on a beam axle so there is an option. I also did another very weird thing. I had a guy come in and wanted M-2 on his Roadster so he could let his Old Lady drive it. Said it drove like a Truck and even He didn't like it. I looked things over and got out my Jack and got the front tires off the ground. I grabbed the driver side tire and tried to twist it into a right turn position, I could hardly move it. Then I got out my Grease Gun and started pumping Grease into all the Zert fittings. I looked into his Vega box then filled it with 90/140. By the time I was done you could turn the steering wheel with One Finger. I advised he change his U-Joint at the steering box being it was sloppy due to forcing things that were nearly Frozen up to move. I also aired his tires up from 12 lbs to 32 lbs. He was a little embareased but happy when he left. Amazing how many guys don't do mantanance on there Hot Rods. I also agree your front tires are a little to wide.
Just for Shits and Giggles try the floor jack exercise and see what it feels like off the ground. You could actually have an issue your un aware of.
The Wizzard

 

If the front end tune up and skinnier tires don't do the trick, there are electric power steering units that go in the steering column under the dash. There some threads on them on here. There is a wide range of price and will probably need professional installation.

 

Don't remember which company, but someone just came out with a Saginaw 525 power box suppose to be the same size as the manual box. Might be what your after?

 

The Wizzard always has great ideas.

That'd be what is be doing right now to see if there's a problem that's save a bunch of time money and effort. Someone suggested that you have a MII steering but if you could confirm along with a couple pictures of the rest of your setup you will get even better ideas from this crew.
I used to have a '56 pickup with an early big block. Tried for months to find the proper fitting short pump accessories to run power steering. Finally the easy way turned out to be a non power box from a station wagon which had a better ratio.

 

Back in the late '60's everyone that drove Modified Sportsman racecars on the asphalt short tracks in the northeast had a theory that power steering had no place in racing and you would lose the "feel" for the track and oh, by the way, real racecar drivers don't use power steering.

Then Firestone came out with new tires that were 15, 16 and even 17 inches in width. Nickname was Steamrollers. Most of the cars at that time were coupes and coaches with straight axle front suspension. Cars became more difficult to drive. Then a young racer who had arms that were smaller than the tree stumps that the older drivers had, put power steering on a Modified. The old school racers said it would never work.

He won races. Beginners luck, they said. He must have a bigger motor. They still maintained power steering wouldn't last. Something else to go wrong, it steals valuable horsepower, he'll not be able to control the car because he won't be able to feel the track. He continued to win races.

After getting tired of getting a consistent view of his back bumper and seeing him in victory lane, the other drivers decided that maybe power steering worth trying in spite of all the downsides....

Power steering on a Hot Rod? Sounds like a great idea to me. Find a local racer and get some ideas on how to make it work. Just be careful... the road won't feel the same....

Regards,
Moselli

 

Power steering is a smart move, yes. Thinner front wheels and skinny tires will get you close to your goal too.
You might want to look into those new small Vega / Monza P.S. box retrofits also.

 

looking at the build pictures in another post , it does appear you have EARLY MUSTANG steering as X38 suggested.....not Mustang II. early mustang as in `68-`73

BUT...as others have suggested , post some pictures so we can see

you say are a on tight budget , who will be doing the work?

 

I had a similar problem with the 40---I ran the tire pressure up to 38 (new tires) and it was cured. I did call Goodyear and confirmed the pressure would be OK---for whatever that's worth.

 

They now make a power vega box.................

 

Get the power assist stuff from a '50s GM, truck or car won't matter, it is the easiest to install and while it is not like a Lexus it will give you the boost that you need when its not moving fast.

I would ridicule you for wanting it but why bother from your posts you have already beat yourself up enough. Get it and enjoy the ride.

 

I have two rotator cuff tears that a refusing to heal, along with six bone spurs in the socket, accompanied by a lot of missing cartilage, all in my left shoulder.

I am just 45.

I support your choice to run power steering. Anything that keeps you in your rod, and happy, you should, by-all-means, do.

 

i saw an electric power setup on another site. takes up some under-dash room, so roadsters are probably out. the fellow adapted the equinox steering to a shoebox, which is more of an assist, and can be tuned for steering effort. he said that if the system would fail, steering would be like normal manual steering.

 

Going off 36-3windows info that it's a 68-73 mustang box.
One thing to check out, make sure it's not a power steering box already, a p/s box without a pump is a bitch to turn. All of the above suggestions on suspension geometry and align need to be investigated.

A rebuilt 1972 mustang power steering box is $120 at oreilleys. Rock Auto or others may have better pricing.
since its a small block chevy, a power steering pump and brackets should be easy enough to locate used. If you wanna get fancy check out lee power steering pumps and brackets, they are used on a lot of dirt track cars and look much better than the factory stuff.
Some of the others may chime in - any issues using a chevy p/s pump on a ford box, pressure differences?

Here's results on a quick ebay search for stock type power steering pump and bracket.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/171724520708?nav=SEARCH
http://m.ebay.com/itm/331567337549?nav=SEARCH

 

I beleive it is CCP [classic car parts] that has the vega size power box, I think they call it a 400...I put a 605 power box in cross steer configuration in my shoebox with a beam axle and just love it, especially manuvering around for parking..

 

You could try getting an alignment, make sure nothing is worn in the suspension or steering. Pump up the tires to 32 PSI. Make sure the wheels have the correct offset. A car that light should steer like a baby buggy.

Here is 5' tall, 101 year old Margaret Dunning driving her 1930 Packard, without power steering, just to make you feel like a big girl's blouse.

 

Man....as always you guys really come thru with helpful advise...
The one problem I have right now is that I won't have access to the car to take pix til Monday...

Lots of great suggestions and ideas here and I intend on looking into all of them starting of course with the cheapest and easiest

Here is a link to my facebook photo album for the car, it is all I have access to right now...
Keep in mind that these pictures show some change over the years with the build pictures last...
https://www.facebook.com/gary.fowle...0204038845038662.1073741834.1450025125&type=1

Seems I recall from years ago, it being a Vega box but I could be wrong...
See...I owned this car for 2 or 3 yrs and sold it in 09 to a guy in the small town that I live in and am buying back this weekend...
I am excited to say the least as this is my favorite car I have ever owned and have missed her terribly... I am stoked to get her back!

Thanx for all of the input guys and this conversation will be picked up the first of the week and I look forward to sharing this and other projects with ya'll for quite a while to come Thanx again!

 

Did ya pick it up yet?

 

There's a perfectly logical reason why more and more racing applications use power steering. It allows extremely quick steering with the sort of effort you'd associate with a light sports car. This is a bit different from the Dad's Oldsmobile approach, which is about finger-light but not particularly quick steering. A lot of road-racing etc. cars these days have something like ¾ of a turn from lock to lock, which would be impractical without power steering unless the overall degree of lock were severely limited.

The feel thing: power steering works by some sort of device responding to torque between the steering wheel and the steering gear output. The assist comes in when that torque exceeds a certain threshold. The threshold might be controlled by the stiffness of a spring of some kind; the stiffer the spring (or whatever), the less the assist, but also the greater the signal fed back to the steering wheel. The trick is, of course, to be able to vary that.

 

OK....She is mine again and I have pix...
Here is the steering box...



Pitman arm is only 4-3/8" long...I think partially because of header clearance...
I am remembering now that if I turned it to the max the rod would hit the exhaust header so I put a 1/4" spacer between the header and the head to fix that and it worked...

Caster was mentioned here too and it seems to have quite a bit...it is hard to tell from the pix but here is that...



Narrower tires was also mentioned...the wheels are 15" X 6" wide so I am sure that I could probably get a narrower tire on there too...
I also am noticing that the rubber bushings in the camber adjustment rods are spent...where is a good place to get those? Somewhere like Speedway...??? Exactly what are those called...???

Thanx for all of the help guys...it is much appreciated!