Technical Getting the front end squared away...

Not much leverage that's for sure. Add a small diameter steering wheel and no wonder it is hard to turn.

 

Any ideas anyone...???

 

OK, Here is some general information you should know. To have minimum amount of resistance in turning radi. The King Pin line if it was to go all the way to the ground should contact the ground dead center in the tire tread. Now that's the ideal point. The further off center of that line you go the more resistance you add to turning the wheel. Yours is terrible. Now add the tire width it all adds up. Did you try the floor jack test yet? It also looks like you could just move the Hiem joint to the opposite side of the pitman arm and create more space at the header.
The Wizzard

 

I don't even see any Old dry grease around the rubber boots at the Tie rod ends, steering rod ends, or King Pin bearings or axle boss. P.O. must have been real good at detail or maybe there isn't any Grease in them. Think I'd check that out.
The Wizzard

 

I'd make a bet the Spindles don't even have any Zert Fittings in them looking at the style of steering arms you have.
The Wizzard

 

All points taken...I will check this stuff out today...
What do you mean by "floor jack test"...???
Thank you...

 

Stupidly I started another thread asking about replacing my dry rotted 4 bar bushings...I should have kept it all here because once that conversation started it became apparent that the two are related...
Sorry about that

Among other great input redo32 said the following...
"It appears to me that the angle of the 4 bar end and the bolt do not match. That's what likely tore up the bushing, although I haven't seen the rubber bushings used in over 30 years. If you put the urethane bushings in I bet you can't get the bolt to line up. The 4 bar seems perpendicular to the bolt so a new straight end might work. I'm also concerned about the shock travel. The drivers side only has about an inch and the pass side might be 2 inches. Were the brackets welded in that crooked? A lot of wore out marginal parts here that need to be tuned up by an experienced professional."

That is great info...NOT exactly what I wanted to hear but oh well...
I just want to get this front end squared away Believe me I really appreciate this help as this kind of suspension is all new to me...

My reply to redo32 as well as the other posts was...
""Well for starters I am not sure what people have done trying to "adjust" the front end...
As far as that angle tearing that bushing up...all of them in the front end are dry rotted...
I will check some of this out at work today including the kingpin angle and the zerks...
Meanwhile I would like to get some new bushings ordered up...are they all the same size...???
Looking around it appears as tho the OD of the bushings are all the same with various IDs...
1/2...9/16...and 5/8...correct...???
Where is the best place to buy them...???
As far as getting it tuned by a "professional"...I doubt there any of those anywhere close to me...
I live in a little country town, it is 35-40 miles to the nearest town in any direction..."

I can't thank you enough guys....you are the best!

 

One other thing, how do you bleed your front brakes? Bleeders should be pointing up to properly bleed them.

 

Definitely an early Mustang steering box.
Is the pitman arm on the box (4 1/2") the same length as the steering arm on the spindle? The length ratio between these two will influence steering effort and turn angle. They're levers.

BTW, the bushings are called" four bar bushings".

 

I mentioned the "Floor Jack Test" a while back. Floor jack under center of front axle and lift the tires off the ground. In other words, Load weight on axle and by hand turn the front tires stop to stop.
The Wizzard

 

F.Y.I. Re. angle of Rod ends. The through bolt for the ends should be 90 degrees to chassis center line. Actual angle of ends depends on Chassis width at mount point and width of Bat Wings on front Axle. Think about Door Hinges. to work properly as they move the pins need to be on same centerline so not to Bind. If this stuff is what was on the car when you sold it and it worked then you can get it back to same point by doing proper mantance. Those bad bushings wouldn't freek me out at all. At this point the last thing I'd be thinking is cutting Shit off and changing hardware. Find the bind and frozen parts first.
The Wizzard

 

Here is a link for a conversion kit, easy to hide.


http://bangshift.com/general-news/n...g-electric-power-steering-for-classic-muscle/

 

Yep, I added one of these once, simple, cheap. Pump, lines, ram, done.

On another note, my wife's truck has a steering (suicide, necking) knob because she only has one arm. I have used it on occasion when I have one hurt arm and it does help.

 

show a picture of the upper zerk, on the driver's side, bet it has never been used. Believe us, if these issues are addressed, you will NOT need power steering. !!!!!
Get that OUT of your head, its ugly, Un-needed and confuses the looks in the engine compartment.

While your buying P&J parts, Get their shorter shocks, and sell those long ones, re-coup half the expense, and don't skimp trying to find the shorter ones somewhere else,, P&J have them manufactured only for their customers.

 

As far as the rod end discussion goes, try to measure the angle (from parallel) the rods are from frame. Buy new rod ends set up for that angle (or close). The bushing end will slide smoothly on the frame bolt and the threads will point in the direction of rod angle. You will get new bushings and eliminate the misalignment and bushing wear. Try Pete and Jakes for these parts or any of the other usual suppliers.

 

If you live in the country there must be a shop that caters to hopped up, off road, 4 wheel drive pickups and Jeeps. They sell all kinds of aftermarket parts including urethane suspension bushings. Yours may be a common or generic size. The shops I know stock the most common suspension bushings, the off road guys beat the hell out of them and buy new ones all the time.

 

Pull one out and look at the inside, it might even have a part number embossed into it.

 

,
even if it does, don't replace with rubber, (my .02 cents.).

 

Bad rubber bushings won't have any effect on steering wheel resistance. They may let the car dance around on the road a bit and I agree, don't replace them with rubber.
The Wizzard

 

If you suspect heat from exhaust caused rubber problem, change exhaust.

It will destroy urethane bushings quickly.

Also while your there replace heim joint on pitman arm, or at least put a big washer on it, if it comes apart, you will be outta control.

just sittin' here, nuthin' on TV..

"I didn't leave old Fords, Old Fords left me $$$$$"

 

verde742, I'll bet ya there isn't a Zert fitting on either spindle at all. Look at those bolt on steering arms.
The Wizzard

 

I notice as I look down at picture from top> the relativity of the king pin inclination and the spring perch is an indication that there is "TOO MUCH caster.

Get on level floor, put a large carpenter's square on the floor, long end up and try to determine inclination of axle, (caster,) if I remember, you want about 3-5 degrees. whatever, try to make sure both sides are close to the same. measure off long side of square to the same point on each side at the axle.. 3-5 degrees is NOT much..maybe even 7 degrees, (just make both sides near even)

When you get near a bigger town have it aligned by the oldest alignment shop still in business, in that area.. and have them check toe-in.. does it dart?

 

WOW....lots of info here! Almost information overload! LOL Thanx again

OK...where to start...
Let me say first off that I can plainly see that power steering is not going to happen...
There are many other issues that need to be addressed 1st and once they are corrected I prolly won't want or need it anyway...
SO...let's get passed that and work on getting my chit squared away...

It looks to me that I have several things to address...

Tire width...
Caster angle..
Brake bleeders...
Zerk fittings...
Angle of the rod ends as well as the angle of other components...
Worn out bushings...

What have I forgotten to mention...???

Let's take things one at a time...easiest first...

Tire width...Not my first concern but sometime before this project is done it will have narrower tires...
BTW...the rims are 15" X 6"W...don't really want to buy new wheels so I will more than likely get the narrowest tire I can safely run...prolly a 175...???

Caster...I measured yesterday and it is about 11* and I realize that it should be around 5-7...
I am not too concerned with that right now as that can be corrected when it comes apart for bushing ends...

Brake bleeders...yes they ARE on the bottom...not sure what to do about that (any ideas?) but that is not top on my list right now...before I am done with the suspension it will be addressed somehow...

Zerk fittings in the spindles...YES they are there...one on top and one on bottom...
The top one can be seen here and yes, there IS a bottom one too...


Bushings and angles of the rod ends etc...
When I study the geometry of what I have here I can see several things that seem to be "crooked" and out of kilter...including the perches, the shackles and more..
As I am learning here, I believe that if (imagining) the set up was not attached to the spring it should have nice, free and easy travel up and down with no binding and I would bet that mine would be in a horrible bind and THAT is one of the main goals here is to free all of that up...correct???

That being said...I don't remember it being this way when I owned the car before so I think it has been messed with...also it doesn't drive nearly as good as it did before...

Correct me if I am wrong but is it possible that the angle at the rod ends might be that someone has turned them 1/2 turn and the angle is the opposite of what it's supposed to be...???

Correct me if I am wrong but what I think I need to do is get the bushings that I need and get the car up on the rack and replace those, making sure that the rod end angles go together nice with no binding...Get my caster set closer to 5*-7* and go from there...
And also try to get everything lined up straight and even if that makes sense...

Who thinks that the heim joint should be on the inside of the pitman arm...???

Someone mentioned the pitman arm and the steering arm being the same length...is that critical...???
It would seem to me that it should be longer for more leverage...???

A couple of questions about the bushing install...how hard are they to install meaning are they pressed in...will I need a press...??? Do I use grease...???
I found these P&J bushings on ebay...assuming that I get the correct size, is this a decent deal and is this what I need exactly...???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-4-Bar-R...olt-/320817158151?hash=item4ab2315807&vxp=mtr


Once again guys...thanx so much for all of your help and input as without your guidance I would be lost with this front suspension

 

Just to answer your first question, sometimes bleeders end up at the bottom when people put the calipers on the wrong side. Don't know what you've got, but many are able to be mounted either side of the car, hence the problem. A simple thing to fix. At least then you'll be able to bleed the brakes properly.

 

X2

 

Well as Bleeder valves go, yes they should be at the highest point. However, on this car you can get to the caliper and "IF" there was a need to install them so they just ended up on the bottom no big deal. The trick is to remove the caliper from the bracket and clamp the piston, rotate the caliper in your hand so bleeder is on top and bleed the thing, reinstall it as it was on the bottom and your done. After all how often do you need to bleed the darn things? Once done position is not an issue, it don't care if it lives upside down.
Pitman arm and steering arm the exact same length? Not necessary. We often change them to add or remove leverage so we like the action at the Wheel. Just take a moment and think about it. They'r just levers. Longer takes less pressure to move, shorter takes more. They can actually be adjusted to get what you like, that is if you can actually do your own fabrication on those parts. Same goes for the steering arms. Most home builders can't do that (or so they think) so you do mail order and just live with what you have.
Caster angle 3 to 5 or 5 to 7 is up to the car and driver as well as Tires. Think about Caster adjustment like a Tune Up. It's not like One number suits all. Minor adjustments can make you happy or not behind the wheel. Identical numbers on both sides, Probably not. Depends on road crown and what you like. Most production alignment shops get you close but they aren't Tuning the front end. There goal is to get you out the door. Most Hot Rods just drive kind of OK and most drivers really don't know how much better they can be.
I'm glad you have Zerk fittings. Be sure to use them every couple thousand miles, more is better than less. Hope you know I was just having a little fun picking on them.
Yes you can install new bushings in a good bench vise. Your right taking one issue at a time. Get the bind out of moving parts and back to where it was when you owned it before.
The Heim joint on the pitman arm don't care what side it's on as long as it uses a through bolt and not a tapper stud. Moving it to the inside will give you more space at the header pipe.
Disclaimer,,,,,,, Know that on the H.A.M.B. FOR EVERY STATEMENT MADE, there will be some Genius call B.S. on it. Us this information safely, compile all the information you can, sort through it and discard what don't apply and by all means THINK for yourself.
The Wizzard

 

Before a person can think for themselves, they need knowledge of the subject. So many degrees of opinions out there.
While I agree with many things the Wizz has said: Why would you want calibers upside down, when changing sides is pretty darn EZ. It doesn't know its upside down, but the critiques know, this time, play to the crowd.

When installing new bushings be sure to line up hole in bushings with zert hole and just for giggles look at how the little groove takes grease the length of steering arms, and king pins. Does no good to replace bushings if grease can't penetrate.
More than once I have heard, the zert won't take the grease, guess I need a air grease gun instead of a hand pump..

"The customer is NOT always right... but he is entitled to be heard. "

---- Its better to be paid weekly, than to be paid weakly ----

 

verde742 I think the calipers were mounted upside down for brake flex line clearance, that's a guess. With it out in the open it gives the hecklers something easy to find and pick on.
The Wizzard

 

Yes, you are probably correct....
where are you in the great P.N.W. ?

 

As far as the bleeders go...I was going to suggest the same thing...unbolt, flip over and bleed...simple...
I DO understand that a rotor or "something" needs to between the caliper pistons but that's how I intended on addressing it... Besides...my fenders also mount where the caliper does and that may be why he did it that way in the first place...
As far as the pitman arm goes, I would love to TRY a longer one if anyone has one they would sell cheap...other than that I will need to buy one and I am not sure where to buy or what to ask/search for...I would assume that the holes on each end has to match what I have now...someone said I have a Mustang box...??? Is that what I need to know for that end of the arm...???

As far as getting the bind out of it....I intend on getting it on the rack and removing the front tires and prolly the fenders to get them out of the way...Prolly remove and rebuild one bar at a time, trying to get things all lined up nice and see if I can get it to move freely up and down...

I DO have a nice, big vise and a press across the street so I am good there...Someone mentioned greasing them to go together easier...???

Moving the heim to the inside will give me more space at the header pipe. and that is what I am going to try however I kinda remember trying that back when I owned the car before and for some reason it wouldn't work...Also someone suggested putting a large washer on it "just in case"...???

Thanx again for all of the help...I have own a few cars in my life and have done most of my own work but things like this front end is a lot different than most of us car guys has experience messing with...