Glass cutting with the Flow water-jet

Flow International has the new 5-axis water jet machine which has the capacity to cut three demensional objects. Now I know that you can cut flat glass with the standard waterjet however does anyone think it's feasable to cut a contoured peice of glass like a windsheild with the new 5-axis machine? I'am going to call the guys at Flow on friday and discuss this possibility if they've tried it yet or even thought about it. If they're up to it I'm was going to to also see about having them cut a windsheild for a project I have now. The problem is that most of the new 5-axis machines are owned by the military so searching out an idependant shop who has one would be a difficult task let alone a cheap one, it would be far cheaper to have Flow cut it I think.

 

Why not just cut it with a hand held tile saw as everyone else does? LTR Dave

 

Have you actually ever tried to cut curved glass with a hand held tile saw? It doesn't work very well... There is something about covering everthing in and or around the shop with glass particles that isn't very appealing to me. Besides I actually want it to look professional and I also don't want to go through more than one windsheild because they're not cheap.


Besides I'm not one to conform to what everyone else is doing, can't someone be different or do we all have to do it like everyone else?

 

#1. if you're too cheap to plan on buying more than one windshield to do a chop, then you're too cheap to have something done on a 5 axis.
#2. Curved glass always has a chance of breaking, if you can't afford it, don't do it.
#3. There's more to cutting curved glass than just cutting glass. Regular methods usually don't work well. Why? Cause it ain't FLAT!
There are stresses in the glass that get relieved when you cut it. The glass sometimes wants to spring and take a slighly different shape. When you 'blast glass, you can see it. If you are doing it right, the glass actually "unloads" and breaks while you are cutting it. Fortunately, you are wearing out a groove in it, that the crack naturally follows, instead of going anywhere it wants (throught the middle of the windshield!)
#4. Sometimes there's a reason "everyone is doing it". Maybe it works!

 

I have had glass cut with a water jet, was some years ago. It works well on flat glass, leaves a nice polished edge. But flat glass is supported well while being cut. Don't know about a curved W/S. Also curved laminated glass has other problems, as the two pieces kinda fight each other. Two pieces laminated togerher, inside a little big, outside a little small. I think with good support it would work. Don' know about cost?...My 2 cents.........OLDBEET

 

Old beat, "Sorry to hijack Oakland" my Dad and I were talking last night about chopping a top. Neither of us has done one and we both know we can do the chop but the glass like most other people is the only problem we can think of we may have a problem with. My question is if you had a frame the exact contour and everything you would need for a windshield. Can you take a piece of laminated glass and use a torch to bend the glass would that work? Was just a thought, we weren't really sure how glass guys do it and that's the only thing we could come up with.

 

ORange COunty Choppers Has one.

 

Like Dakota said, I was going to suggest OCC from New York. However, if you talked with the guys at Flow, I'll bet they'd be able to suggest someone relatively close to where you are in an interest to promote their product/machine, but to also make it easier for you to find and refer others. Word of mouth is the best advertiser.

 

No, torch won't work. You need to cut down a regular W/S...........OLDBEET

 

There is no way you're going to cut a curved windshield with a water jet. At FVTC where I went to school, we had one and I can't imagine how that would work. First off, it would take an amazing amount of programming to get the machine to follow the cut lines on the windshield. And second, the windshield would have to have a specially built buck or stand to keep it fully supported during cutting. That water/emery mixture is coming out at mach 2.

Maybe it's possible, but I doubt you'd get it on the first try, and they'd probably be charging 5 grand a cut to do the work.

 

It's not that I'm cheap... it's the fact that I'm using o/e non-laminated glass and I don't want to buy the new replacement glass because it is infact laminated. To find the o/e glass is getting extremely tough and exspensive for an un-cracked, non-chipped, non-fogged, clean peice of glass. I've had too many glass shops break my windsheilds trying to cut them down for me and I'm not about to just throw away $800 on this project, that's right $800 for a windsheild but that's not a new one and I don't want to the new one.

Squablow- I'm talking about a 5-axis machine, it's the new waterjet from flow that cuts on a 3-demensional scale instead of the original 2-d version you had used. It would be more like a couple hundered bucks not 5 grand to have them cut something, if they charged 5 grand to cut something then they'd be out of business in a hurry.

Ghoztrider- Yea I had considered OCC and that's what flow had said too, my dad talked to someone out there who runs that new 5-axis and said it's deffinately possible. However he suggested bringing out the glass personally and being there to assist with the glass, he said the mail is rather bumpy these days to ship out something like that.


Thing thing about the water-jet is that it hardly puts stress if any into and on the material your cutting with it. You can lay fruits and veggies on the grid and cut them without even moving your material also with out exploding or breaking them. Something has to be said for that, it's an extremely gently way to cut something. I understand fully that there is load in the glass from being formed however if you were to create a wooden buck or similar you could bypass the excess material becoming unsprung as it's discarded and preventing the glass from cracking. I don't see any problem with taking 2-3 inches off a w/s that's 12-15 inches high, remember this isn't laminated glass that's why I want it waterjet cut. The waterjet can and will cut up to 400-600 ft per minute on the 5-axis machine so it would take less than thirty seconds for it to make it's cut across the glass supposedly.

 

wouldn't non-laminated glass just shatter??

 

Maybe you should talk to someone who owns one rather than hypothesize here? Then come back and show us some cool pics and some tech that went into the project.

 

What kind of glass is non laminated???? Tempered...it don't cut. Tell us what you know and what kind of car? Please!!!!.........OLDBEET

 

When I'm talking about how gentle this machine cuts I'm not hypothesizing anything, I called Flow this morning cause I was being harrassed by my father about this project. They said it's doable I just need to figure out how I'm going to go about it and when I'm going to make the time to take a road trip.

 

Exactly why I'm looking into the waterjet alternative, when I heard that they're cutting 2 inch thick glass with this machine and 8in stainless steel then I had to investigate. The possibilities are endless with this machine, they're even cutting circuit boards with it. The car isn't a car, it's a one of a kind caddilliac.

 

Come clean, tell us what yer trying to do. Get your facts straight. Sounds like yer makin a mountain out of a mole hill!.............OLDBEET

 

A couple hundred bucks? I doubt it. The amount of programming time it's going to take to make that cut where you want it is going to cost some money. The actual cutting might be cheap but the time it's going to take to set up the programming and to make some kind of support buck is not going to be cheap.

And what kind of curved windshield isn't laminated? What kind of a car are you working on?

 

Years ago (early 90's), I talked to Ingersol when they were developing their version of the Flow Jet. They had a cutting jet set up in what looked like a bandsaw. The work table could be sized as small as the jet receptical. Anyway, material was basically cut freeform with the jet being stationary. The guys at Ingersol said they could cut laminated safety glass but not tempered. When tried, tempered glass would shatter.

 

From FLOWCORP.COM

In 1983, the world's first commercial abrasive waterjet cutting system was sold for cutting automotive glass.

http://www.flowcorp.com/waterjet-resources.cfm?id=335

 

I think this was for pattern cutting regular glass before the curving and tempering was done.................OLDBEET

 

Making a wood buck would be no problem, I can make that here on the cnc router and the programing time and cost wouldn't cost me a dime cause I use the same solidworks 07 that they use so I can just create the program myself to run the curve, the only time consuming aspect of it would be zeroing the head for a start point. The glass is hand blown and finding another one has been next to impossible, they can make a laminate but I don't want that.

Ryan- Yea they were talking about trying it and they seemed eager to make the attempt when I told them what I had here, but yes they were deffinately confident they could do it considering they had succesfuly cut thin porcelin supposedly and silicon based sheets which are fairly fragile.

 

I'm interested too. I cut windshields on a weekly basis. a way to cut tempered would be very interesting. I have a local waterjet shop and some tempered glass. I'll let you know how it came out....Jim

 

Jim, I tryed to have it cut,tempered, at Hydro Sabre Tech, after an inch or so it broke. Made a mess of his machine. they were not happy!......OLDBEET

 

You can't cut tempered glass, doesn't matter how you try to do it. It's MADE to shatter if the glass is disturbed.
I think it was Dave SImard at East Coast Custom who was successful at have the glass 'un-tempered' at a manufacturer, cutting it, then re-tempering it. He was doing alot of late model Chevy pickups at the time, so it was worth it (large batches of glass). You need to know the original tempering temperature to do it right, and it's different for differene brands, and batches of glass.
FWIW, I think this kid's dreaming, or doesn't know what's going on.

 

"The car isn't a car, its a one of a kind Caddilliac" LOL..........OLDBEET

 

Yep done it then belt sanded the edges looked totally awsome. To keep the glass particles down I used a hose with some water. LTR Dave

 

Well I just read the above post and In my experience cutting old glass tends to break. If that has even one tiny chip or pit near where you cut it I bet it will break wether you do it with a grinder or the water jet. I believe thats just a characteristic of glass.A friend of mine worked a a water jet place in richmond cal. They cut glass all the time but after a while refused to do old glass as it BREAKS. Second question why would you not want to run laminated glass? Non laminated glass is extreamly dangerous. I dont want to see something hit your glass while your driving it or the body and frame flexover some big ass pothole you couldnt miss and that glass end up it your lap and face. It will be a bloody mess as Im sure you know what your intending to with an unlaminated shield is way dangerous. Dont do it! Lots of people do scary ass shit on here this sound like one of them. LTR Dave

 

IF you're planning on using tempered glass for a windshield, I'd reconsider that plan if the car is going to see any road use. If it's strictly a show car, then that's a different story. If you're planning on using NON -laminated glass for a windshield, I'd STRONGLY reconsider that.

Tempered glass is not used in windshield as it is prone to shatter upon impact. Windshields are laminated to keep the glass stuck to the laminating layer in the event of impact. If you're clipping along and a rock hits your tempered windshield you'll end up with a lap full of glass chunks, at the very least.