I used the 3M brand with the special mixing gun to apply it on my trunk lid two years ago and you can't see any evidence of it anywhere on the trunk skin. It's been in 100 degree sun and in sub freezing cold. Steel framework and the skin is aluminum .080 I believe. There are different types of the adhesive, I got the stuff for bonding aluminum, and it is strong, when I did a test panel and tried to seperate after 24 hours it tore the aluminum skin but the bond held. I'd use it again.
If all the edged are hidden such and a full deck lid skin or full door skin not a problem. A **** joint will show up eventually.
I've got a pretty nice 56 Ford pickup cab that has a screwed up roof panel. I've been waiting for someone to start making metal replacements for them (since 90% of the roofs I've looked at have some sort of problem), but so far no go. Someone does make a fibergl*** roof skin for them. At first I thought no way! But now if push comes to shove, I'll use the gl*** panel and glue it in. It's not like all the body panels on new cars are metal.
**** man, think smart not hard! Do you still use a furnace and forge your own parts too? Remember... it's an "old school" Hot Rod!
Don't they use adhesives of some type, to build some of the uber-expensive exotic car bodies ? 4TTRUK
About 20 years ago I made lower door patch panels for a 38' Willys pickup. I glued them on using body panel adhesive. You would never of known till this day and the truck has sat outside for a good portion of that time in MI. I believe its all in how you prep the metal and following the instructions accordingly. I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.
I use it extensively in restoration. Along with many modern products. But ONLY.....let me repeat that! ONLY!!!! on pinch weld flanges where I can resistance spot weld thru the adhesive. It's called weld bonding and is one of the attachment methods used in modern construction. It is NOT for lapping on a patch panel. Sorry there is no easier, softer way, you gotta weld exposed sheet metal seams. I haven't posted much about the process here, what little I have has been met with quite a bit of resistance by the ignorant. Too bad. it is by far the absolute strongest most corrosion resistant joining method available. (in the proper application!)It's easy too!
Yep, But it sounds like something that I might have said. Thanks though, I kept looking for my post and thought that I had lost what little mind I had left.
As someone who does this for a living and works for 3M. Our product is NOT designed to put on patch panels. Adhesives expand and contract at different rates then metal does. On a hot sunny day on a dark car you will likely see a "bond line" much like you would if you brazed a panel on, We always reccomend you weld the sail cut for that reason. We also weld the rear vertical portion. A adhesives only weak link is peel strength ( think about a roll of tape ), which is why we weld the rear vertical portion on the 1/4 at the tail panel. As for strength how does 4000 lbs per sq inch overlap sheer strength sound? We actually set a record in Europe for adhesive strength by lifting a very, very large truck with very little adhesive. Go to 3Mcollision.com to learn about all our products....oh and by the way it's not traditional unless it's on a 63 or older Corvette ha-ha By the way a neat demonstration is to take a post it note glue to glue and try to pull it apart ( it's harder than you think ) now take 1 paper to paper and staple it ( similiar to a plug weld)
These men (along with a few others) KNOW what they are talking about! Nobody is saying glue is no good...just that it's meant to be used in selected areas on the vehicle. Bonding a patch panel along a pinch weld is usually fine but NOT along the seam where the original panel is trimmed to fit the shorter patch panel. That area should be welded to prevent shadows etc. The seam there is barely covered by filler etc and the stress caused by expansion/contraction will result in a shadow. At the pinch welds or factory overlaps, the "seams" don't even GET covered. they just get seam sealed (if anything) so obviously nothing will show up as a paint issue. NO chance of shadows there! The stuff is good...but like anything it has its limitations. It's not the end all to every panel joint!!!
Wow that's a lot of response! As far as ****** goes I must need my eyes checked!!! So it looks like I have an idea what to do. Thanks for all the info!!!
I have used it to bond plywood to the inside of my firewall so I could mount the fuse panel. Glue anchors to the firewall for attachment of wireties etc. I did not want any **** showing. I have also used it to fix a plastic radiator tank and other odd things. It has lots of uses, never used it for bodywork but will try it if the situation comes up.
new vehicles are held together with weld bonding like someone else mentioned in this thread. Panel bond works great if used corectly, but welds are still needed when replacing a panel along a pinchweld or it will eventually fail. They say horizontal seams can be glued, but vertical seams need welds to prevent cracking later on. We use fusor at the shop i work at, but I have used 3m and it is a better product. Fusor seems to run and ooze everywhere, it also stays greasy and never seems to fully harden which makes paint prep difficult. The product rep says this is to allow for flexing of the joint? When we did the door patches on my 66 we used panelbond to attach the lower skins. In the end it would have been faster and easier just to weld them, plus after 4 years the seam is visible even in black primer. Panelbond needs to be clamped well for it to stick and its not always easy to get clamps inside a door or lower 1/4. Some people use self tapping screws, then fill the holes with panelbond or weld, but i have seen that fail. I just weld all patches and in my opinion its easier to finish off, makes a better quality repair...that i can be proud of, and will last for the rest of the vehicles life.
Remember the "expert bodymen" that would put bondo on inches thick now have another product to mis-use
The reason for these posts is to inform and prevent mis-use. And PLEASE, stop referring to hacks and amateurs as "bodymen". I'm sure I'm not the only professional here that resents the hell out of being lumped together with these *****s that slap this **** together in the back yard. It would be sorta like lumping all the companies making absolute **** "replacement body panels" with the professionals trying to produce quality parts.
I watched my body guy replace a rear quarter on his 70 GTO convertable. Looked good when it was done in Black. Can't say how it held up. The car went to S. Cali for 30g's.
A full quarter or a patch panel? If it was a full quarter than it should hold up fine. (although personally I'd have to do at least SOME welding on it) A patch quarter that splices into the exposed area of the quarter and then gets filled over is not likely to hold up. THATS the difference. Even a factory roof seam (usually covered with lead) will likely hold up for a long time because it will be buried in deeper filler. It's those nonfactory patch panel joint seams, very close to the surface, that become a problem quickly.
old thread but, subject that some may be interested in. as stated, not for exterior patch work but, inner panels and other areas can be bonded together with products like 3M Automix Panel Bonding Adhesive 08115, 3M Panel Bonding Adhesive 38315 and others. using the Automix products do not need a special gun if doing a small area.
Good Thread and it provides much needed information. I really appreciate Post # 46 by Tinbender his comments are Right On !!! I am familiar with the 3M product and have seen it work well over the years with regard to hidden seams. It is great on floor pans. For those who are building fibergl*** cars, I would like to point out another use for the panel glue. There is product designed for bonding fibergl*** panels. This product can be used to bond wood structure inside of a gl*** body. I have done this in the past to prepare a raw body to receive upholstery and find the 3M product to be great. Hope that some of you "Gl*** Champions" read the thread. It sure beats the hell out of the old fibergl*** adhesion method................. Jeff
Gluing body panels is a VERY good way to go! ESPECIALLY for rust-out! I got this idea from a friend who had redone a '76 F-250 4X. My personal '70 F-100, had the typical rust out in the fenders behind the wheels. I did this in '94. But basically, I pulled the fenders, cleaned out all the junk, dirt and trimmed out the rust-out spots. You need to get all the rusty stuff out of there that you can, rust can come back from a small spot. I made patches to fit in BEHIND. I use small, 1/16", counter-sunk POP rivets to help hold the patch in place, around the perimeter, about 1 inch apart. I use J.B. Weld, the stuff works GOOD!! More importantly J.B. isn't hygroscopic, which is a fancy Ten cent word meaning; it doesn't soak up moisture! Body filler DOES soak up moisture if it is exposed, painted over it won't, but anybody who fills an open hole with filler, it will rust out from behind!! Sometimes within a few months! I don't like MIG welding, (wire feed), for this kind of work, because the welds are porous, thousands of tiny holes that can allow the body filler to soak up moisture and start to rust out!! A '56 Olds, local car, that has been redone, probably wire-fed, is rusting out at EVERY welded seam on that poor old car! I'll add some pics later! P.S., my '70 hasn't been in a shed since '94, those patches haven't rusted out!! Proof!!
lot of good reading here.. i havent tried the bonded panels yet and think maybe on the floorpans on a 51 i am doing now i will give it a try.. might be faster than the ****on weld and seam sealer route i usually take in this area.. but think i will stick to welding my patch panels unless doing a complete quarter or roof skin where i can hide the seams..
Alot of misinformation here. Bonded seams, if done correctly, will not show a bond line..ever. It is like everything else. If you dont take the time to do the application correctly, it is NOT going to be work correctly.
I was wondering when this would be coming back around. The thread was a couple of years ago and everybody said it doesn't work and it will not work. The truely sad part is no one told the car or the parts that it was going to be a problem. The parts are as much a part of the car as any welded on parts. When the car sits in the sun for hours..........nothing......when it is cold as hell in the garage, nothing. For the guys who suggested we learn to weld to solve our issues......look at the rest of the car. The guy I share the garage with is a fully certified welder in both MIG and TIG. If you take a look at the car in the album on my profile called the Shavrolet Sleekline story, you will find some really great fabrication........... We thought it might be worth a try so we did it. Would we do it again ? YOU ****ING BET WE WOULD !!!!!!!!! Should you try it ? Only if you think you know everything there is to know and you know this will not work. To the guy at 3M.............remember, ****** was found by mistake while working on some other medication. Just because a manufacturer says no to an application does not make it so.The glued on pieces were more cosmetic and have proved to be no problem. Sad part is we used the wrong taillights and grill ( welded together, of course )so the car will never see the light of day on this board......... The car in question ? To the guy who brought this back up, give it a try....remember....... Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained
A buddy of mine has an absoloutely beautiful frame off GTO. it was a rust free California car - a lower quarter had some damage from somthing lightly hitting it. The restoration shop insisted on a patch panel and - you guessed it- they bonded it on - that witness line is now the ONLY flaw on the car.
While there may be ways to cross over into new technology here n there, replacing an engineered weld with glue (bonding) isn't one of em. Newer cars are glued to an INNER FRAMEWORK that's welded together. That's what all the plastic pinch moldings are about. Older cars count on panel integrity for strength. That's what many of the kool body lines are about. Not much INNER FRAMEWORK on the average 50s-60s-70s car when you pull all the outer sheet metal off. Proceed accordingly.
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