GM and Chrylser to merge?!

brand name -wise, i don't see the big deal, hell, GM has been in-bed with alot of automakers for years, examples, chevy nova= toyota, chevy prism=toyota, pontiac lemans=daewoo, suzuki cars=GM motors, isuzu[sp?] hombre=s-10, old isuzu troopers could be had with a GM 2.8v-6.

and as far as American made, i think that ends up only being the packaging of parts, i work at a chevy dealer, and almost every part that is in a box is made elsewhere, but the box says it's made here [as in JUST the box itself].

 

M-B was having some real bad years when they owned Mopar, and Mopar was doing really well. M-B used the Mopar money to keep them afloat. Left Mopar with next to nothing.
I'd rather see mopar go away than become part of GM.
Oh, yeah, and if Chrysler has always been German, that means Chevrolet has always been FRENCH! I'll take the NAZIS over the frogs every trip of the train!

 

Hmmmm...no one has mentioned the astronomical salaries and benefits that UAW workers enjoy. You can't expect ANY company to survive when you are paying guys $40-50 an hour to sit on their ass and play cards, domino's, sleep, read the paper...well, you get the idea. I'm not saying the unions are to blame for their demise, but their pushy bully on the playground techniques certainly didn't help things. There was a time and place for unions but those days are long long gone!

My job takes me to many GM, Ford, and Chrysler plants across the country. I have to work directly with all types of skilled trades, operators, and all of them are the same. UAW employees are hands down some of the laziest self righteous people I have ever met! If you think this is hearsay, you are dead wrong. Again, how do you expect a company to make money when you have 15-20 guys sitting around making $40-50 hour sleeping? And this is in EVERY cell come across in these plants.


I appreciate all the hard work the UAW did for us in the past, but its time for change!!

-- Flame suit on -- I'm ready!! -- Unleash the UAW beast --

 

If it does finally come to the point where the American auto industry collapses in on itself and there is only one manufacturer left it would seem appropriate that they rename it "American Motors"..............

 

Man that's crazy. I hope that doesn't go down.

 

No argument ... and going into bankruptcy (Chapter 11 or whatever) might allow GM to throw out the contract, renogotiate.

 

Ohh yes you are so right.... lets all take pay cuts and go down to make 5$ an Hour with no health care or retirement because you saw some slugs sitting around and they and the unions must be at fault.......not entirely..... pull your head out of your ass and stop listining to all the brainwashing propaganda youve been listening to.......

P. S. do you shop a Walmart(and the like)????? if you do your the biggest part of the problem.....

 

Chrysler is currently owned by a private group of investors. If a merger were to happen I suspect GM would be bought by those investors. GM ain't in no position to buy anyone right now.

 

Can't see it happen...not to mention that thread is off FOX news....but realistically GM would gain nothing by merging with Chrysler. Maybe 15 years ago it would been an interest for both parties because of Jeep (being interest to GM's portfolio) and GM world wide being an interest to MOPar), but GM got Hummer...sold alot of them and moved into the niche that jeep had, infact Jeep changed their image to more of Hummerish vechile to gain some ground back) blah blah blah. Aside GM Recently -they post they wish to sell Hummer, so who needs Jeep. Corvettes sell more then Vipers and Chrysler isn't its own company anymore. Its held by an investment company. Seriously its scary times , when spectulation starts popping out... Here's one, if GM were to close and go bankrupt (google this you want) 1 in 8 people in america would be affected. That's not that 1 in 8 work for the General but local businesses, stores, movie theaters, child care centers, etc etc would be affected by a loss of spending money.
But back to thread title....Don't see it happening. There would be no gain on GM's behalf, the only one that would gain would be the holding company Cerberus (who would love to reclaim their 7.5 billion investment) and it wouldn't be a merger it would be them selling to GM.... however GM has no funds to make such a purchase, so, like stated before.... don't see it happening.
Tank the media again for pushing hype and panic... at least it isn't about politics.

 

Any GM or Chrysler product I would be likely to use has already been manufactured.....years ago.

 

If anything is to blame its poor management, greed and ignornace on behalf of our goverment and large corporations, that put us where we are now.

 

I just went and read a different article from the AP and it may be a swap kind of deal.
Which does make sense. GM gets Chrysler and in turn gives up it's stake in GMAC, which Chrysler's owners have a HUGE stake in. GMAC is hit hard by the economic situation.

Chrysler's owners are not in the car business they are in the money making business.

Dumping vehicle production for financing is in their interest and dumping the lead weight GMAC is on GM is in their interest.

 

The union contracts are a big part of their own situations. Union is too big, too powerful and choking the companies to the edge of failure. But that's not a topic for this forum.

 

No car company has built anything worth having since the early 70's.

I say merge away...

 

The biggest thing that bothers me about all these people that justify their Honda or Toyota by saying "It's built in America" is that while they are assembled here and that does give people jobs, the bottom line is when the day is done, the profits return to Japan, not America. Those profits are then reinvested in the Japanese economy, strengthening theirs Not ours!
Did the US auto industry fall behind and basically drive the customers to the Japanese? Yes. But the long term consequences could see the US auto industry failing and if you don't believe that will have a huge impact on our economy, you'd better wake up. And yes the Unions are a huge part of this problem. They have too much power protecting the small faction of workers that really do take advantage of the power and protection the union offers them. The unions need to grow some balls and police their members so that the companies can be productive or there will be no union, because there will be no car companies.

 

According to the article that started this thread, Cerberus (Chrysler owners) would get all the remaining interest in GMAC. That has been GMs "cash cow" for years. Automakers can afford to lose money on car sales because they are making it up on interest from loaning money for people to buy the cars they are losing money on. Make sense? No? Good, I'm not the only one...but what does this spell for the long-term health of GM and Chrysler?

Union wages may be a part of the problem, but the fact is US automakers will NEVER again be able to compete on price FAIRLY with imports. Sorry, I said it. And build quality has been a dead issue since the 70s. All our industry has left is a waning sense of patriotism...

 

GREED, has caused all this gloom and doom ! The ruin of the USA, caused by rapacious desire for wealth, rather than caring for your fellow man.

 

On the topic of GMAC, GM can't ride of GMAC as that is GM's life support and only source of income, as it isn't selling cars. GM did sell less then half of GMAC a few years ago aswell as other assests it had to generate money with-in the company.
As for foreign automakers, they play by a different rule then american soil companies. Toyota, honda,nissian, subaru, etc, who have plants here, can say they are made in America, and do generate much needed jobs in poorer areas, however they build in non-union towns and operate with ease. American car companies, have numerous parts parts made over seas, China, mexico, korea, etc. so the complete America car isn't really American when its all said done...its about as american as the other guy's car. you build where you can get things cheap. Where the playing field isn't level. (My opinion) is that we (America) aren't aloud to build plants in other countries, like Japan...That's NAFTA at work against us. Globalization sucks... but its envitable. It all comes down to greed. Union Contracts do hamper the stituation but its managements fault for not updating them. when everyone is fat dumb and happy and over fed, no body cares to change things until its to late, when most of those contracts were in place, you didn't live as long after you retired...etc..

 

Sorry, but he's right. I knew people that worked in the old GM plant in KC back in the day. In the late 70s and early 80s, we had a family friend that worked there. Her job was to sit on a bar stool and as the cars rolled by, she put the owner's manual packet in the glove box through the passenger window. In 1980, she was making almost 20 bucks an hour and bitching because she only had about 14 paid holidays each year. The UAW shot their own foot off and that's just historical fact.

The American auto manufacturers have made themselves into WalMarts that make cars. They buy the cheapest shit available from the cheapest international supplier, farm out the work to the cheapest international labor, then wave the ol Stars and Stripes in our faces and say "Buy American". Over 60% of the cost of a new vehicle is labor cost. I agree, Unions had their place before labor laws were put into place and we owe them a historical debt of gratitude, but the past 30 years have shown us what greed can do to an entire economy, let alone what it can do to a few companies. The UAW has out-lived its usefulness and the American buyer is paying the price for it.

 

If they do it, I don't suspect much will change except there will be just 1 less American auto maker. They will just combine what they can and dump the rest, including workers, management and facilities. That is what mergers are generally about. Keeping the good stuff and dumbing the "deadwood". Sadly, pretty all they have is deadwood on both sides - mostly top down. So, not sure how much will be left when 2 way-behind-the-curve, money losing companies decide to get together besides eating themselves and forcing Ford to do the same. Sad, but probably inevitable giving how poorly shortsighted and uncreative all 3 American companies are at this point. Even the Chevy Volt is a shockingly disappointing attempt. If that is the best they can do, not much hope really.

 

Dude, please, that was 30 years ago before old Ronnie straightened everyone's asses out and showed people the way to really do it.

The greed from the last 30 years you are referring to is now at the top, not the bottom. Quite the opposite problem from when the lazy unions guys were apparently ruining America. Sorry, but it is bank draining CEO's and investment bankers now, not poor union workers trying to make a halfway decent dollar with their own hands.

But for all that, the real problem American automakers have is they lack any sense of inventiveness or vision for the future. The fact is they build stuff for the past not the future. So, now they are going to find themselves in the past instead of the future. It is not that what they make is poorly built really. The quality since the 80's has gone way up. It is the concepts and the designs that are quite frankly 30-40 years behind the times. For some unknown reason, they have lost any sense of vision for the future and can't design and market anything that is competitive in the world market where other companies are doing a much better job at it. Their problems start with the upper management telling the designers to design bad product that unfortunately is made pretty well, but it is still a poor product that doesn't meet the needs of the marketplace. Capitalism 101 at work. They have poor fundamentals and just aren't creative and aggressive and have lost the edge.

But even more honestly, it is a problem with a lot of American manufacturing across the board. No sense of creativity or inventiveness and no positive vision for the future and making this country better. Most just want to take what they can and then dump when done. People and companies need to start investing in companies in this country to make them and all of us better, not just to gamble on stocks etc. to make easy cash and dump it the second it no longer suits you. Investment should be a real investment, not bullshit stock market gambling and should be for the long term future, not the immediate present and certainly not the past.

 

All this would mean something if any of them cared about the product they produced.

They may as well make widgets. N/A automakers have been figuring out ways of taking value out of their cars for years while others have been trying to put it back in.Guess what big three...? you suceeded there is NO VALUE left in your cars.

 

YEP!!!!! thats what i was thinking!

 

I think it's sad when America is no longer a producer of goods that the rest of the world wants. We've become a nation of consumers of goods made elsewhere.
Most unfortunately is the fact that even those cars/trucks we've always looked upon as "made in America" are primariily a foriegn made product. This happened long ago. Problem is that no one seemed to notice.

Remember in 91/92 when GM reduced their work force by about 160,000 jobs and then opened plants accross the boarder and employed about 160,000 Mexicon workers at a few bucks a day? Every part you buy with the Delco label is made in Mexico.

I'm not sure, but I don't think GM even has 160,000 employees nation wide now(???)

The president of Ford stated in an interview during the mid 80's (when the imports really started kicking ass in the marketplace) that Ford is in the business of selling Profit.......

Iaccoa was selling Jeeps as "made in America" when they were being assembled in ROC from parts that came from Mexico, Canada and America.
This at a time when he was personally (as well as officially) Lobbying Reagan to impose large tarriffs on imports so as to protect the sales of his mini-van
I recall GM stating that the Celebrity was a great deal for only about 12,000 bucks (88/89). At that time you could by a Nissan or Toyota for the same money. The difference was that the Celebrity would a completely deteriorated POS after about 50,000 miles while the Jap cars would barely be broken in. How many 20 year old Chevys do you see on the road during your daily travels?? Compare that to the number 20 year old Jap cars and you'll have the answer to the question that's being asked today...

I would sincerely like to buy a GM or a Ford product, I just can't justify wasting that kind of money. It really pisses me off 'cause they have the technology, experience and skill to build the best car in the world, instead they chose to build the one that generates the most profits SHORT TERM as opposed to building the car that will guarantee them the most profits LONG TERM. I'm sorry to say this, but GM and Ford have brought the problems on themselves through a long standing short-sighted business philosophy.

 

I could really care less..niether of the big 3 are "american" thru and thru anyways..they sold out way too far back, and none of them make anything i fucking want to drive anyways..cept maybe that new challenger..but thats just cause it looks cool.

really now..go look at your newer "american" made car and show me that you can fill 2 , 5 gallon buckets full of american parts..
good luck

dont get me wrong..this is a sad state of affairs..but it has been coming from a long ways back.

stick with your old cars ,, built by an american company, and also built by an american..YOU!

 

Ceribus want to trade 80.2% of Chrysler for the remaining 51% of GMAC that GM still owns. Wouldn't cost GM anything on the surface.
19.8% of Chrysler is still owned by Daimler
Don't need any $ for that.

 

Look, unions have somewhat to do with the problem, but the US has had to rely on new technology and advances in manufacturing to compete with cheap labor costs around the world for along time now. Unions didn't destroy our electronics industry (how many TV's, radios, DVD players and soon to be computers etc are made here) or furniture, clothing and the many other industries that we used to dominate the American market with. As long as we want $19 shoes from China at Walmart, then we're in the same position as we have been. Our grandparents made do with much less than what we take for granted everyday, and maybe it's time we bite the bullet, and pay a little more for American goods (with some sort of actual certification program) or just accept that we will be one player in the global scheme and not the dominant leader in the future. We consume more that any two nations combined in luxury goods, so maybe we just need to cut back, get by without Tahoes that we drive to the mall alone in...

 

Same company that owns chryco owns most of GMAC.

In this globalized world, none of this matters.