"Gowjobs": Depresion Era Performance and Early day hop-up tech

I think your right Mac. I wanna say it was also driven by Arthur Chevrolet, but I would have to re-read that article.

 

I don't want to discourage you from scanning and posting them, but I'm pretty sure I have the articles you're talking about in my copy of Fahnestock's Model T Speed Secrets. The Fronty Fords at Indy are very cool, but I really want to know more about the '27-'34 era. It seems there's a big gap between the Miller 122s/91s and the Miller-Ford FWD cars that nobody talks about, and since those cars are the kind that would have inspired kids like my great uncle to build a gow in that era, I really want to know more about that particular period in Indy history.

-Dave

 

Okay, I gotcha ...didn't know you had the same book! Surprises me how many have never heard of or seen it. Sadly, I'm a bit useless on this subject...but want to learn more as well!

I normally take my inspirations from just about anything auto racing related 1910 to 1934.

 

Some of you have seen these before, as I've posted them for years on the H.A.M.B. But, for those who've not seen it. This car has been, and will be actively raced by me in West Coast vintage races. It is not an Indy car (the wheelbase is only 95 inches, vs. 110 inch Indy requirement.) It is listed as a 1932 AAA Champ Car. I say "listed": as it has a 1928/1929 Essex frame, Model A rear axle, Model T rear spring, 33/34 Ford front axle; '40 Ford brakes, 1930 Franklin steering box and a 1932 Ford 4 banger block and transmission. As you can see by the one photo (the one where I'm "dogging" the Bugatti), it is very fast. I didn't beat the guy in the "Bug" that day(he is a world class driver); but, I did set the fastest lap.

 

Great lookin car Ol' Dawg!!!! You can post more pics ifn ya want too!!!

Ron

 

O.K.! Here's some more:

 

I study those particular cars quite a bit since the Belond roadster had a loosely based copy of that engine in it. What are you interested in knowing?
Are you refering to a performance gap?
There were other Fords besides the Millers that ran at Indy in 34 as well as 32 and 33 all with V8s. Not all of them qualified due to various handling problems.
Jack Roush recently built a very good recreation of one of the 34 Junk Formula Ford V8s that was built by Don Sullivan a Ford engineer and one of the other people responsible for the ill fated Miller attemt, it was driven by Chet Miller a customer and good friend of Sandy Belond.

 

Howdy 777, thanks for the reply. I’m not sure what I want to know. I guess I’d like to know more about the cars that won, the cars with unrealized potential, and just what the rules specified about permissible engines, transmissions, chassis and bodywork.

Un-specific enough for you? I’m just generally hungry for information!

-Dave

 

I'll preface this by saying we should probably start a new thread for this info since I don't think it is realevant to Gowjobs.

In the early 30's, pre '32, the Nation was still in the depths of the "Great Depression." Spectator and racer attendance was low at the The Great Race and it was even considered to be cancelled.

Indy was known as the "straw test" for the auto industry in the early post WW I years and the manufacturers used the race to promote their products and the big exotics and purpose built racers flourished there during the pre depression years.

When The Depression hit in the late 20's consumers and manufacturers rethought their budgets and Indy was on the brink of being lost. Part of Indy's restructure was to introduce the "Junk Formula" in an effort to fill the starting grid. Superchargers were banned, fuel and oil were rationed for the race and that drove the exotics out and made room for a more economical race car. Hence the term "Junk Formula."
The "Junk Formula" was actually a way for Indy to intice the owners of out dated race cars to bring them back to Indy, which many owners did, but Studebaker saw an opportunity and fielded a successful team in '31 and '32 based on their passenger car engines.

The first documented Ford V8 special was built by Merrill "Doc" Williams and was listed as the Warnock Special.
With Doc Williams driving and Milton Totten as mechanic, the car failed to qualify with its best run of 104.538 mph. 104 is actually not as bad as it looks here, in retrospect 104.162 mph was the winning average speed of the 1934 race and 106.240 mph was the winning speed in 1935 but there were FWD Millers that were able to reach speeds of 117 mph in those years.
The Warnoc Special did go on to finish 7th later in 1933 at the Elgin Road Race.

More to come or should we start a different thread? Actually you might find a lot of this info in the 1894-1944 racing thread

 

First time post, and off the current topic, but I'm looking for advice on framing up the front of a 1915-22 Model T touring body into a gow job. I would like to end up with an interior that has the look/feel of a pre-war home-built plane (lke the Pietenpol pictured below). I've got a set of Mel Miller's plans and was thinking about working them up in spruce, but it seems like it would be better to do a more rigid steel skeleton, at least around the perimeter, I would appreciate any thoughts, advice, pictures, etc -- thanks.

 

Perhaps not directly, but I think period race history is definitely relevant in that it served as inspiration to that generation of hot rodders. Here in the Midwest, especially, we didn’t have dry lakes heroes; instead our focus was on circle track racing and its “big time” cousin Indianapolis.

If you look at ‘20s-era speedster literature, they’re always citing the board tracks as inspiration. The Brickyard would seem like the natural successor to those venues once the Depression hit.

I forgot about Elgin. Those prototype stock cars, and the ones that ran at Mines Field, also give me good gow job vibes.

I would really like to hear more - either here or in a fresh thread if you want. I don’t really want to wade through 50 years of race history to get the info, though.

I appreciate your sharing so far!

-Dave

 

The Pietenpol cockpit is handsome! Are you narrowing your tourer into a single-seat modified? It seems more aircrafty if that’s the case.

Steel seems to be the popular route for stiffening up T bodies, and it’s hard to fault the guys that do. Again, in my quest for period correctness, I’ll probably stick with wood. I don’t think there were too many guys with the skills to weld in the early Depression years. If you search around the HAMB, I think you’ll find a number of threads featuring the whys and hows of putting a steel skeleton into a T.

Good luck!

-Dave

 

I will give my ruling....I will allow this.

When I started this thread, I wanted to focus on the "gowjobs" and their build tech from the period....but as the title states "Depression Era Performance and Early Day Hop-up Tech" which I must agree with Dave, does encompass this sort of racing tech as well.

Most of the techniques in the "gowjob" era do stem from and have roots in the racing culture of the period.....farm boys that got ideas from there heroes of the "brickyard" and adapted them to there home-built Model T "Gowjobs".

I would say it is relevant here...but of course lets try not to drift too far off topic

...carry on

 

Clayton, Sorry that you have to defend this thread. I am not that knowledgeable but feel that it is fitting for the era of these cars. You are using basic tools and mods to lower the car. No parts newer than the body you are working with.

Keep on reporting as you return your "T" to driver status.

Dave

 

It's almost impossible to separate the two, gow jobs and dirt track racers. The method Clayton useed to lower his '26 is straight from the racers handbook in the late '20's. They found corners could be taken with their foot still in and one hand on the brake, it by lowering the center of gravity. A car with basically a stock suspension was called a "Drifter". It would spin out easily in a corner if the driver was too agressive with the throttle. At the same time a car whos center was to low was called a "Floater". It would drift around the corners causing lost traction and lap time. This info came to me from some ol' drit boys in my area.

The kicks we put in our frames are nothing more than an attempt to turn a T or A frame into an Essex type frame. IMO, You can't hardly talk about one without including the other.

Ron

 

i'm not sure but i think as these guys were modifying the cars of the time, the guys down at the traditional horse newspaper were mocking them and saying "they just don't get it."

 

I'm no expert here, but it seems to me that between the road racers (Euro and American) and the cars that ran on specialty tracks, there wasn't much difference in the types of speed equipment they used. In suspension and brakes and trannys, sure, after awhile. But any of the go fast stuff could be used by them all and better brakes or tires never handicapped anyone. I'd hazard a guess that it wasn't until after WWII that significant differences emerged in the various racing types. And of course, drag racing hadn't been got to be sanctioned even. Gary

 

This the only image I have of a car (the second in line) of what is today represented as the Barber Warnock Indianapolis 5th place car in 1923. Knowledgeable eyes will see that this current car is about one foot lower than an original (there were a number constructed). I DO NOT know if this car is a modified original, or a replica. From a technical view, this car is fitted with engine that has a DOHC alloy cylinder head and an alloy five main "Model T" block; instead of the iron Ford block, OHV "Fronty" head of the original. It has a four speed Volvo transmission. It is a very powerful and fast car; much more power than the car in front of it, in the photo (mine).

 

1917 T Roadster advice WANTED.............. I think this is the place to kick this idea around, a 1917 T Roadster that I've know about for 50 years may be coming on the market. Stone stock, owner passed away 6 months ago, kids aren't into cars. Their Mom and Dad were friends with my Mom and Dad and I'd get a ride around the neighborhood in the T, made some lasting memories. I remember it with a nice period built pickup bed, it has a turtle deck on it now. There is a pickup bed of spair parts in the garage along with the T, old pickup bed is there too. This has always been a fun car, NOT a restoration by any means, ran and had many cans of rattle can paint shot on it. I need another project like a hole in my head, but somehow need to see about getting this T in my garage. I don't know what they think it's worth, I'm thinking five grand on the top end, what do you guys think? I may be able to get a grand for the extra parts. Sentimental value is going to overrule sane thinking, but it sure would be a great base for the few Speedster items I still have left.

 

if it feels good do it!

 

I would spend 5k for it. Lots of possiblities for it, speedster or just a cool ol'T to get groceries in.

Ron

 

The other thing about the '17 T is the fact that I could swap out the firewall,hood and radiator and have a '15 in about two hours. Being broke in this econemy will force the sale of other things that were "keepers", but loosing out on this car would haunt me in a year or two.

 

If you have first shot at it, why you asking us!!! Gary

 

Sounds like you had better go for it!

 

Just had a thrill with my '21 .... sat in it for the first time and no clamps or vice grips holding it together! Got a grin as big as after my first Kiss. The Kodac moment with have to wait till tomorrow ... damn arms is too short.

Ron

 

been holding my breath^^^

 

I recently bought a copy of John Rueter's book. American Road Racing, in it he mentions a race against professional oval track drivers. He described the road racing specials they drove, as not competitive against the specialized oval track cars. This was in 1935, so some differences already must have already existed.

 

That is a great book! I've had a copy since the 1960's, and many of the cars mentioned and photographed are restored and run in Vintage Races, some are even owned by HAMB members! I'm guessing the race mentioned was the Vanderbilt Cup event were Indy Car drivers as well as GP drivers from Europe raced with some ARCA drivers.

 

It was the second Nolfi promoted event, at the Readvile MA track. I feel lucky to get my copy, printed 1963. I'm building something in the style of the ARCA specials. I've driven over a bridge named for the Collier's father my entire life.

 

Okay, lets "switch gears" and talk about Transmissions ...

..and yes, the pun was intended

Now, I had another H.A.M.B.er ask this of me recently and I thought this would be the perfect place to expand on it and see what all of you think.

Say it's in the pre-war era...1931 to 1938 to narrow it a bit..and I'm building a "Gow" or "Supe" job running a hopped up Model A or B 'banger and an early Ford banjo rear axle. I want more top end out of the car and a good reliable gearbox to back up my new mill. Besides changing gear ratios in the rear axle..

...What do I use for a transmission? Do I stick with the A or B gearbox?...Or do I do the work and sub in another period 3-speed?

...And if I do, what transmissions would have been popular and the most reliable?

I was thinking maybe early Ford V8, perhaps Franklin, or Packard?

What do you all think?.....