HA/GR organization ????

This is the 3rd time I've tried to submit this thread. The first 2 times it said I wasn't logged in. I'm a slow typist so it's quite a chore. If it comes thru 3 times I'm sorry. Ron

Guys,
Weekend before last I had a meeting with the owner (Rob Parks) of the local drag strip (KCIR) here in Kansas City and the organizer (Chris Schneider) of the "Muscle Car Reunion" race series. I gave them a copy of the HA/GR rules and showed them a picture of one of the cars. They were both impressed with what we are trying to do and Chris wanted to know how many cars we could bring to the Muscle Car Reunion races at Gateway Park in St. Louis, May 30-June 1st and KCIR, October 3-5th. He wanted to include our program on his 2008 flyers.

I told him we weren't organized enough at present and couldn't guarantee how many cars could/would show. He suggested we get organized, develop a race program, have everyone join, elect officers and schedule several HA/GR races next year.

Rob Parks is the NHRA Division 5 Director and as such carries a lot of weight in the Midwest. He said as long as our cars met the basic safety rules for cars slower than 9.99 E.T. we wouldn't have any problems. I feel this is the foot-in-the-door we've been needing.

Comments, suggestions, *****es, etc. welcome and desired.

(Now, how do I slow my car down enough to stay legal?) LOL

Ron

 

If NHRA gives the ok on HA/GR's I think many more will be built. It would mean someone like me located in the frozen north could run one in brackets around here and make a trip or two to your area each season to race with other HA/GR's. Building a car that cannot be run close to home just isn't practical.

 

Just came through once, I can only imagine the other two eternally adrift in the ether, lost electronic souls.

Do I read correctly Ron, ten seconds + ?
At first blush that seems a bit expensive a catagory for twelve second cars. I'll have to look it up but I thought that included certified ch***is', full cages, arm restraints, full suits, etc. for open cars.

Still, his advice is well taken. If we're to take this "into the light" it'll need a bit of organizing. What we're asking for is a new cl***, and that won't be addressed in any serious manner until it's presented in a serious manner. The "chicken & egg" aspect of it cited by bobw can only be overcome in that way at that level.

In that we're also spread out rather thinly as yet would it be workable to initiate such an effort via this internet "ether"? That is, could we start up a central car/team registration listing for those interested, with organized communications as a first goal? I know we have something like that here but it isn't being utilized for anything in particular and thus isn't very well attended. Also I admit a significant ignorance of this medium, would this require a dedicated "site" and financing of some sort? Our less formal efforts here in L.A. have so far faded out it seems.

Anyway, it's certainly a hopeful response. Better than the time honored "poke in the eye ...... ".


"(Now, how do I slow my car down enough to stay legal?) LOL"
Just pull a spare engine along on a pallet behind you .........

 

Ron and all,
I would work with what ever you can get together. Just keep the hamb rules in effect .

 

I dunno, I have worked as an elected official for a couple of 'sanctioning' organizations, my biggest concern would be for what liability is incurred by the organization and it's officers.

I pose this as I wouldn't want anyone to take on that kind of responsibility unknowingly. I expect you all probably already knew that, but it bears mentioning.


On the point of getting HA/GR more readily accepted by tracks and other sanctioning bodies, I'm all for it. I only have really one track available here, so I would rather run somewhere else, give me an excuse to see the country some more (anybody got any extra parking?).

 

I would like to see the HA/GR get organized because with that we can communicate upcoming events and participate as a group. As for the legal issues I think that if we don't get to complicated with our organization I wouldn't think we would open ourselves up to any legal issues. I think we need to stick to the rules and not let the people start to make more modern racing equipment allowed. As I understand what was said is we can run in the 10's with the car configuration as it is now. If we are running in the 12's now that leaves us a lot of room for improvement. Also I would think that if we start showing up at a lot of different tracks it will bring more people into the group. The bigger we get as a group the more that tracks will listen to us. Just my 2 cents worth and now I'll go change my Depends. Roy

 

I'm with Bubba.
I think we are organized, but it is over the intrenet. I live too far away to actually help by showing up at a track.
I'm doing what I can to get some more built down here in the south. I believe that as more of us show up at different tracks, the more interest will be shown and the cl*** will grow. The more it grows, the more NHRA tracks will get interested in it.
Not that I care if they ever sanction us as a cl***, I'd rather they did not. I do not care for all the polictics that will come with it.
I will do anything that I can to help as long as the HA/GR rules are adhered to.
Robert

 

I'm for it. If one NHRA track and official accepts it, that sets precedent, and opens doors. It didn't take long for the SDRA to get organized and set up a race series. Bob just put his mind to it and did it. A big new track is being built in Northwest Arkansas. I'll bet it will be NHRA sanctioned. I'd like to get in with them while the gettin's good.

The most important thing to remember here is that the HAMB and HA/GR is owned by Ryan. We could not do anything like this without his approval.

 

Thanks for all the positive feedback on this. I think it's the next logical step for us to take. With an organization behind us we'll have more clout, and be accepted at any track we choose to run.

I'll ask Rob Parks to look at our car and give a ruling on how we would fit in at local tracks that come under NHRA rules. I'll try to get a firm commitment on the 10+ ET rule. I'd also like to be able to bracket race the car in addition to the HAMB, HA/GR events.

Ryan, thanks for that. You got this whole concept started, now it's time for the rest of us to see just how far it can go.

Any suggestions on how we should proceed?

Ron

 

Ron,
Thanks for the good news. I think it will really help this deal to gain energy if we could see which rules will apply to the cars...safety equipment wise that is. Zilla.

 

I read somewhere in the last couple days that NHRA is establishing an 8 race series on the west coast for nostalgia drags. To me, that means they see the value ($$$) is supporting and promoting this type of racing. Now, will they "bend the rules" to accomodate our types of cars? HA/GR and street driven rods with minimal safety equipment? If I showed up at Brainerd with a HA/GR car they would pat me on the head and send me home. As an open car they would insist on a proper roll bar, arm restraints, battery cut off , etc. I had a tube frame fibergl*** Fiat with a 406sbc in it. A street driven rod. It would run high 11's and had a full cage and all the other safety equipment I thought NHRA required. They let me run 1/8 mile at a private race put on by Minn. Street Rod ***n. But told me not to come back for a regular program unless I put in a funny car cage, arm restraints, etc. All this was necessary becaue I got in the car through the roof (no doors) They considered it an Altered. I put a Crosley Wagon body on the car and p***ed tech. because it is now a "door" car and the requirements are different. Two problems we will have with HA/GR cars are (1) they are an "open" car and they will make NHRA want to enforce open car rules and (2) we don't have "critical m***" meaning, there aren't many of them in the country, so why make a special accomodation? Individual track operators might bend the rules if a number of HA/GR cars want to run because of the novelty of it and because they aren't very quick so the liklihood of a catastrophy is small. But, a lone HA/GR car showing up at an NHRA track for their regular weekly program will in my opinion be met with skepticism and probably not be allowed to run. If NHRA should accomodate HA/GR's officially, I'm betting it wil be limited to 12 flat or something around there. I'm writing like I have an HA/GR car, which I don't. But, I will have one 6 months after I'm sure I can run it locally in brackets and Test and Tune. The HA/GR concept is absolutely wonderful. Good luck to us.

 

Just a note – I've seen arm restraints mentioned twice. They are cheap and I think you're just plain nuts not to use them in any kind of open bodied car. Flailing your arms on the concrete is hard on them even at 50mph. That roll bar won't help the parts that are outside of it.

Now back to lurking.

 

Mine are built into my Simpson fire suit.

 

Arm restraints are around $30-40 for a pair. They are required in ANY open car that plans on p***ing NHRA tech or most any other track.
The are a pain in the ***, but I use them.
I have had no problems running on a regular Saturday night program at my local NHRA tracks with my HA/GR. I admit that I am only running 14.50's at 96 mph, but they really do not look at it more than twice on a regular Saturday night bracket race.
We will see what happens with the new motor going in for next year, they may look at it three times then.

 

Every team or car owner needs to post photos and specifications of their HA/GR. This includes all current rails and those under construction. If you are serious about building an HA/GR, but have not started, please put together a wish list and a drawing. Skrawls on a napkin are fine. I'll need a team name and your location. I volunteer to gather all the data and prepare a report. That's the first step in any organizational plan.

We can present this report to the NHRA guys in Kansas City. It's a place to start. We've got a customer that's expressed interest. It's time to get ready and make the sale. Please post your stuff here. If you need help, you can e-mail me at compran57@yahoo.com.

 

Anybody have any ideas for a name for this new organization? The first thing that popped into my head was Early Rail Racing ***oiciation. E.R.R.A. We are a bit more era specific than our outlaw brothers.

This name may not be the best. I bet sombody can come up with one better.

 

E.R.R.A. sounds good to me. I'll take some pictures of the rail and send them to you as I can't seem to get the hang of posting pictures on this site. One question was raised about not having any other HA/GR's near them. I think if you are in an organization you can be informed about events ahead of time and plan for them. Roy

 

remove the Racing bit.....then you have E.R.A., and that's 'era' specific

Just as a heads-up as to what's being proposed, and what we've done here in oz to become 'fair-dinkum'....to get our feet in the door within our national governing body...

1. numbers of participating cars - we needed a minimum of 6 per event to justify some reason for the promoters to allow us to play

2. Speed limit - our governing body has given us a 'honeymoon period' for our cars to 'proove themselves' with a temporary limit of 13.5 second et's, which will be reviewed early in the coming year, with the view of it dropping down to a 12.00 (or less), which is plent quick enough for the cars of this style, and more importantly, the intent that it represents.

3. Safety elements - whilst we have road cars that can go quicker with less safety elements, because these are seen as 'purpose built race cars', they need to abide to the existing 'higher level' of safety.

Such items include - single layer fire suit, arm restraints, approoved full face helmet, twin hoop cage, external battery cuttoff, 5 point harness, as well as having the car formally 'tech' inspected/plated, and the driver having a basic ANDRA drivers license.

Now, let me start by saying, these requirements may sound 'more' than what you guys are used to, but, as far as we're concerned, you'd be stupid not to have any of the above as a benchmark (except for the drivers license, which is only a formal requirement due to insurance reasons).

4. Format - we have an expected level of presentation and build quality/workmanship, so, whilst some may disagree with what this may suggest (ie that the builder knows how to build), in the interest of all existing racers/participants, we encourage people to build to a standard, or proven method, as there's too much at risk if one poorly built car falls apart on a track.

The process will take some time, and generally speaking, we found it in our interest to work with our governing body, illustrating our perspective and goals, as opposed to telling them to let us race at their tracks to our agenda.

Ultimately, we now have a formal 'foot in the door' here with the HA/GR cl***, which allows us to actively participate at any ANDRA sanctioned event (where appropriate), and 'keep the faith' of what these cars represent.

We've gone from having 6 cars, to a current 12 active (and numerous others being built), with cars now in 4 states.

Note: whilst we've had to make a few concessions on these cars from a formal level, the intent of what they represent (we believe) is still as per the HAMB rules, with the traditional gospel being spread at each event.....viva la HAMB.

Cheers,

Drewfus

 

The SDRA has been mentioned, why not take a look at them ( rules and manner of ops.). They are, as said, an example of what can be done for very litttle $$$ and is working quit well. They might not be true HA/GR, but some of them were the first on the scene under the "original " HA/GR rules. Just a thought.

 

While the spirit of "The Bug", and HA/GR rules dictate what our cars look like, NHRA pretty much dictates what rules they have to run under. When The Bug originally ran there weren't many rules and you could run almost anything. Hell, during the 50's we sat right on the edge of the strip on car fenders and there wasn't even a guard rail between us and the race cars.

Arm restraints and double hoop cages make sense. While I don't always agree with NHRA rules, I do like the fact that most of those rules are safety driven. I worry a lot more about my sorry old **** today than I did 50 years ago. In fact I don't think I'd drive The Bug down a drag strip today.

So that being said, I"ll ask Rob Parks to look at our car and see just what NHRA rules we have to meet. Since he's the NHRA Division 5 Director I'm sure his ruling will hold water at any strip. Once we have the ground rules laid we can take steps to get an organization up and running.

See you on the starting line.

Ron

 

A specific website? Isn't that what http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/index.html is about?
I guess it is up to those involved to supply some "news" for Ryan to publish there.
A registration /list etc, once again Ryan already has that under control at http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/register.html ??

 

Number one I don't think we need another web site for an organization, this site will do just fine. I whole heartedly agree with Drewfus that we can work with the NHRA and if we can get them to specifically outline us with a cl***. That means that we would not be lumped in with funnycars or other sub- ten second cars. It probably will mean we have to add another roll bar but it can be lived with. If Rand man is willing to gather all our cars together here on this site then we are on the road to electing a person to speak to promoters and see if we can run with NHRA blessings at a couple of tracks. If we can then it will make life a lot easier on our buddys in California. I know it can be done, it is just if we have the will. Roy

 

I don't have my NHRA rule book right now (lent it to a friend building a '31 Chev he wants to race occasionally) but, I would be content if NHRA would tell us what we need to qualify for the E.T. Bracket into which a 12 sec. flat open car can run. That way if a lone HA/GR shows up at a dragstrip, it can run with the other cars in that bracket. If 6 HA/GR cars show up somewhere, I'm guessing the track manager would be delighted to have them put on a HA/GR race for the spectators. I think we can meet all (or most) of the rules and still retain the spirit and appearance that HA/GR cars now have. It is primarily the roll bar/cage that needs to be defined by NHRA so we can build to conform. In this scenario a separate cl*** isn't needed since the HA/GR's will be legal for a particular bracket. Then, it's up to the HA/GR racers and the individual track operator to arrange a HA/GR specific elimination, just like the HAMB drags and other races in the Mo, Ark, Okla, Texas area. And, a lone HA/GR in Minnesota can run against all the Camaros and Mustangs in the proper E.T. bracket.

Ron, thanks for spearheading this thing. I want to sell my Fiat body and 292 6cyl engines and build a HA/Gr car and have some fun.

 

We should have some type of format as to what info is to be included, so we all supply the same material. It would appear much more organized???

 

(I think this is the information and format we need right now.)

Team: Speed Merchants
Owners: Randy Compton, Brad Green
Builders: Randy Compton, Kyle Compton, Brad Green
Build Date: Summer 2005
Location: Rogers/Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Ch***is: Modified Model A Ford/Mild Steel Tubing
Engine: 1953 Ford Flathead V8
Best 1/4 mile time: 12.41 sec.
Best 1/4 mile speed: 109 mph

Photo:

 

Guys,

THERE IS ALREADY A REGISTRATION FORM.
(yes I am shouting)

As I said earlier Ryan has all this covered, no disrespect to Randman , but why do we need another website or another register??
Click on the links below to go there.

[B]www.hambdrags.com[/B] is another site already built by Ryan especially for Hamb drags.
HA/GR section included

[B]http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/index.html[/B]

with rules and records area and space for us to report news and other HA/GR stuff.......just nobody has made use of it yet.
This thread is linked as the forum for HA/GR.


On there is a HA/GR specific section for us to register our cars and or interest/ideas in building one
http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/register.html

Ryan has even gone to the trouble of making a registration form

[B]http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/hagrApp.doc[/B]

which opens as a word doc which we can fill in and email to him at a supplied address. Check the page for the email , I won't post it here it just make spam fodder for the web bots.

I have said we several times in the above post so I guess I have to out myself.

HA/GRs being built in NZ.

As far as I am aware there are at least two being built , both in Tauranga, and both due to debut at the NZ Nostalgia drags in early April.

 

Team: 2B-Banjo
Owners: Bob Huberty
Builders:Bob Huberty & Bob Norris
Build Date:Spring 06
Location: Fond du Lac, Wi
Ch***is: Modified Model T Ford/Mild Steel Tubing
Engine: 1950 Ford Flathead V8
Best 1/4 mile time: 12.34sec.
Best 1/4 mile speed: 108.5 mph

 

Team: Cowboy Bob
Owners: Bob Norris
Builders:Bob Huberty & Bob Norris
Build Date:Spring 06
Location: Fond du Lac, Wi
Ch***is: Modified Model T Ford/Mild Steel Tubing
Engine: 1950 Ford Flathead V8
Best 1/4 mile time: 12.87sec.
Best 1/4 mile speed: 102.5 mph

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