Ryan, I would like to be on that list also. A set of some sort of rules would help keep this thing from getting away and would keep it fun. Got lots of parts that would just love to fall together into a HAMBster. Skot
People who are into this are going to be for different reasons. Some want to just go down the track. Some want to build something period perfect. Some want to go fast... Some want to just have fun with their friends... So why burst anyone's bubble? Especially the guys who want to be "Wannabe Smokey Unicks"?? If a guy wants to push the envelope, why piss in his cornflakes... especially when he pushes the envelope with sweat equity and knowledge? Guys like av8 have built cars... built drag cars... built traditional hot rods and then wrote the book on it. So for guys like Mike, building a car and getting it to the event isn't the challenge... therfore, isn't what would drive him to build something to "Drag Out"... the challenge would be in making it go as fast as humanly possible within' the rules... AND making it... as Mike would say... a "stunner"... something to take pride in and something, if he was alone on an island.. would enjoy looking at. Straight up... why poo-poo the guy who wants to make his haul ass and bring home the big trophy? ESPECIALLY if he does it using his TALENT and his KNOWLEDGE and NOT his CHECKBOOK!!?? I think people mistake the two quite a bit... as in, when they see something that is NICE... they think "Money"... Sam.
Rather than asking you to elaborate, I should have said provide some specific criticism and follow it up with your suggestions for a positive outcome. Let's not make this a pissing contest; let's work together and make the HAMBster class something special that we can all enjoy. Since I wasn't at MoKan, I don't know about the "wannabe Smokey Yunicks," but there are very few people a serious hot rodder could better wannabe than Smokey. Finally, I don't agree with or even understand your intent in your last comment. How is what you propose going to help build the HAMBster class into a viable drag-racing class? Mike
Alex, no offense... but why would YOU want to build one? You have raced before... so I know you have a competitive streak... But it seems that you are wanting to squash that... I mean, squash people who want to be competitive. Why? Sam.
No... You are right, I'm not building one. I should stay out of this discussion. I just wanted to say what I've seen happen before, and offer up a sollution. Not the sollution, a sollution....
Damn, you got me again. Should have asked why you don't see the HAMBsters being built into their own "little" class -- perhaps not what you're accustomed to but certainly a fun class for us little guys out to have fun. No matter, it will probably sort itself out if we continue to share our ideas with one another. Mike
the question i have seen asked several times in this thread is "Why do you want to build one" for me, and i think a few others (at least i hope there are others) its for one day a year, and one only. to run it at MOKAN and have a freekin ball on the cheap. think about it... build it for around $2500, and race it once a year at the drags and get your yearly "fix". i saw a couple of daily drivers bust shit on the track, and for some thats no biggie. if i drove all the way to MOKAN and ran my 54 down the strip and tossed the tranny, im havin a BAD day and now i gotta fix my car before i can even go home! with a HAMBster, i can tow it to MOKAN, and race the livin shit outta the thing, and if something goes drasticly south and its not driveable, toss it on the trailer or dolly and tow it home and fix it this winter... K.I.S.S. remember its not about making a high buck class of car... thats been done. keep it simple, and keep it fun, and keep it cheap... but above all KEEP IT TRADITIONAL T
Wow! What enteresting posts. there is a lot of things i could say but i hate to type. but i will say I was there driving the ramrods hambster, we all had a good time even if the 53 ford pickup trans broke. there is 8 guys involved that gave up parts to build this car, including engine and trans. We may have gone barely over the 500.00 dollar mark. Honest! thats all we have in the hampster. Rules, I think we may need to tune it up just a little.
Alex, I caught the vibe you're layin' down... and that is... we don't want this to spiral out of control... to where guys have 40 foot transporters, multi million dollar motor programs and hired guns just for a HAMBster! Please stick around... and help us iron out the details... Sam.
The HAMB'sters we built and raced this year represented the origin of organized drag racing in the early 1950's. I would also like to see a class developed that represented the early 60's using somthing like a Dragmaster FED chassis. OHV and automatics would be the norm in that class, but for now let's keep the HAMB'sters era specific. Starting out with a simple chassis and drivetrain is a great way to learn and get in in on the rebirth of grassroots hot rodding. Maybe in a few years some of us will move up to FED's. That's the way Big Daddy Don did it.
In a nutshell, Yes... And right or wrong, I thought I saw the writing on the wall already. There HAS to be a way to nip that in the butt.
RandMan, that is exactly what I am doing. The HAMBster class is cool, but I also want to build a more slightly modern rail that I can run at one of our strips up here. So, I will just watch the rules unfold, just like I watched the HAMBsters. It was cool to see you guys line up. There does need to be SOME rules, but too many will squelch innovation. There I did it, I added my .02
If I were you guys (meaning the guys that have already built a car), I'd ignore these fellas trying to tell ya how to run your shindig and do what feels right. This past weekend felt right, right? That's all that matters. I've said this before, but the important part isn't who wins or loses these things. It's the fact that you guys are giving others the opportunity to see this type of racing again.
Metalshapes, Like Sam I think i see what your driving at. I've also watched entry level competition get out of hand. An example is NHRA stock class drag racing. When we first got involved it was using "stock" parts (i.e. parts bought at the dealerships). It evolved into cheater cams (that would check for lift and duration) and ran the gamut of "slightly" stroker cranks that were lightened to the point of having to weigh them down to keep them from floating away. the same with rods, pistons, rings, valves, valve springs, cheater rocker ratios, the list is endless. I know of a nationally competitive K/Stock chevy that had over $20,000 invested in it's quest for a national record and this was in 1964. Totally insane in my book. I'm going to get blasted for saying this but boys will be boys and the only way to keep them in line is to have a claimer rule and watch the long faces when their cheap ($5,000 to $10,000) Hambster goes out the gate on someone elses trailer for a $1,000 claim. Any other ideas? Frank
This is a real good post and i for one am going to be watching it closely. This is something I would like to get into depending on how the rules pan out.
Loved watching the HAMBsters run! I thought it was great to see the six run, and win. For the record, the 261 came out in the big trucks in 1954 and was a popular swap for the Hop Up crowd. The Iron powerglide was around then too (although I think the hornet was running a later AL one). On the trans brake, educate me does this work different than the trans brake found on most of the big trucks in the 40's and 50's like my 53 2 Ton? Did racers not use these then? I have dreams of building one of these cars, It will never be the top dog, but I agree with the others, I just wanna build it, run it, and haul it behind my truck. It will be the "Mongo's Garage Stovebolt Special" and plan on running one of my 235's or potentially the 302 that I've got sitting in the basement. Don't need to be on the rules list, I trust the more experienced guys to come up with fair rules for this class. I agree that we need to limit it for safety reason. Also in case anyone's intersted here's one of the many articles I've got about hoping up those sixes. http://www.mongosgarage.com/tech/mongo/McGurk300.pdf MONGO
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa...this is getting out of hand. Friends are chewing at each other heels here...I thought it was for the fun and nastalgia. If one guy has to go faster...so be it...lay the rules...omit the "teckie" stuff...keep it old school....make them as a guideline for us to follow. If a guy wants to dump 10k in a simple "run down the track once a year ride" let him...but how silly is that. The event is a HAMB thing...not a National "Goodguys event." I have never drag raced, but after reading all the other posts of the event (before this post was even started) I called a fellow HAMB'er to start a "on the cheap" gasser to pull down the strip w/ the rest of you. For the fun....that's it. The class Idea is cool. Reaching for the grass roots of the 50's and the start of drag racing and the love for it. I wouldnt even exect to win, just to enjoy and experience. Seeing the Hamb'ster rides was an inspiration and and easy task to take on....I wanted to build one... I missed the event. Im bummed...the stories, fun, pictures and captured memories is what makes it what it was....Im jealous of all who did go. YOU SUCK! Lets make this fun. Go back next year...see the new rides...burn some rubber...get a high time...and drink Orange crush at the finish line. Or Grape Nehi...what the hell right. Maybe the HAMB shoud make a new thread only for this class of cars and our progress....Like the Tech section....STab the rules for all the seee...and push forward...it too can be a place to add changes and suggestions.
Just two cents from No cents. As someone mentioned above, there are lots of reasons for folks to want to race in this class. For some of us, like me, due to family responsibilities, being broke, not knowing what I was doing or a lot of other reasons, the Hambster looks like an opportunity to do something I've always wanted to do - drag race. I looked over SamIam's suggested rules and in the interest of us guys who don't have the parts piles some of you do, I'd like to make some suggestions for the rules. First the engine, How about limiting engines to 245 ci (or some other number), flathead or in line 6 in production 1962 or earlier. There are lots of old Ford 223's 200's Chevys and even Mopar slant sixes from that era that are available and reasonably cheap to run. I personally would like to run an automatic, just for reliability and cost, the old powerglides and c-4's are around and relatively cheap. No trans brakes or electronics. I'd like to see emergency brakes, required front brakes or both. We don't want to get anyone physically hurt. (maybe some egos). And just for fun, we could make it like a bracket race where you broke out at 12.8 or 13 seconds. That might help put a cap on speeds and costs. Again, let's keep it simple and cheap. And as far as running only once a year, to hell with that. I'll be running mine at Hallsville TX or the new strip by Carthage in the brackets and get the bugs worked out. Especilaly if I'm trying to squeeze right up to a 13 second breakout.
Are we going to put out a "rule book" on these hambsters? I have a 170ci slant motor that I want to build a hamsbster around. It will be running an auto, 904 to be exact, that is what I have laying around. I have already bought the tubing for the chassis and would like to start working on it, but am worried about all the controversy surrounding these cars at the moment. If we are not going to get carried away with the rules and are going to use the guidelines previosly posted, I'll start working on mine. If not, I guess I can put a hold on it for the time being.
anyone else? Are we going to shoot for running these next year? Between me and my buddies (all HAMB'ers) we may have 3 in the works.
great discussion! i have no interest in being a part of any group/committee setting guidelines or making rules. however, i've reread sam's original suggestion over and don't see anything pro or con about straight eights. the original wording is "Flathead in-line or v8 engines or vintage pre-1962 Inline engines ONLY. No OHV v8 or v6s." the way i read this is that s8 (actually, any inline flathead) engines are allowed. i hope this is actually the case. suggest that any rules/guidelines are specific enough to eliminate any confusion; even at the risk of being too wordy. for example, would a lincoln v-12 flathead be allowed? any/every flathead (regardless of configuration)? etc.? if i'm just worrying over nothing or stirring something that doesn't need stirring just tell me to be quiet and go to my room... b-t-w; i searched and haven't found a thread discussing rules yet. if there is i'll copy this over to there.
im already planning my parts aquisition strategy for this winter, and Mama fiddy already gave me the nod for it after we "agreed" that it would be in my best interest NOT to buy Rocky's fresh flames (comes with a free car when you buy the licks)
Ok... so if this is true, why do people feel a need to start changing the rules I laid out in the beginning? They worked for this year... right? Guys want to run automatics... fine. No tranny brakes... and they must run a STOCK torque converter then. We can police that by size... just look under the car to make sure they have a stock size converter... aftermarket stock size converters usually have welded on lugs for the converter bolts... and are smooth... If someone wants to be a Smokey Unick and have a special converter made, more power to him... his loss in the end. Or BETTER YET... we can be "laid back and cool" and not police ANYTHING... we'll just TRUST that our fellow HAMBers will police themselves, and in the end, if a guy builds a 10 second HAMBster... we can just turn a cold shoulder to him and make him feel like shit... hahahahahaha!!! The other thing I'd like to change is that the appearence of the motors must remain "period correct" for the era of the cars. "Pre 1955"... So, no Holley 600 CFM vacuum secondary carbs... no MSD or Mallory spark intensifier boxes... and no other "electronics". If you want to run a magneto... fine... want to run a petronix... fine... but no two sep rev limiters, MSD6AL boxes or HEI ditributors. How does this sound as far as rule changes? If a guy wants to run a c4 behind a flathead, 'cause he has it... so be it. An aluminum case powerglide behind a 235... no problem. After all... it doesn't matter who wins or looses... I have to add a side not to that though... I think rivalries and challenges are going to make this thing fun... The only other thing I can think of that you guys might want to consider... is a OHV 6 cylinder class and a flathead class... maybe even consider an OHV 4 cylinder class for guys that want to throw a Pinto motor, Iron Duke or 22r motor in one. Sam.
Atch, yes... you can run a straight eight flathead or a v-12 flathead... but you brought up a good point, "interpretation of the rules". Maybe all you guys can look over the original rules and see if you can find any loop holes? Sam.
Sam...nice points, and great changes....it keeps the playing field down to a respectable level. Does anyone else have any thoughts on his comments? As for the classes; why not keep it pre 55 or pre 62 and leave it? Its the "OLD" iron we want to see ripping down the road....at least...that what Ill be runnning..... Maybe a Flathead Plym. Inliner 6.....
Pre '55 sounds good to me... but then, there may be guys who don't come across the old iron as often as we do... and they'll be excluded from the fun just because of MONEY or LOCATION. Maybe just leave it to '62?? My thoughts on that are that the 55-62 Chevy sixes LOOK like the old Stovebolt sixes... therefore have that "vibe"... Sam.
Here's the updated rules... anyone want to make changes? 1. Stock frame rails or .120 wall square tube rails. 2. Flathead in-line or v8 engines or vintage pre-1962 Inline engines ONLY. No OHV v8 or v6s 3. Engines should be kept close to stock for the first year.,, but feel free to juice them as you desire. Just remember, if speeds increase, more attention to safety will be enforced. 4. Drivers must wear full faced helmets, fire retardant jacket, gloves, jeans and leather shoes. Dont freak about the jacket Summit and Jegs sells RJS ones for $75 and you can find them on e-bay even cheaper. Single layer. 5. Stock width front and rear ends only, no narrowed rear ends allowed. 6. No "slingshot" chassies. Driver and engine must be positioned entirely between the front and rear axles. Engine and driver placement can vary. 7. Cars must be equipped with an engine mounted starter. Jumper batteries ok to use to get cars started. 8. Batteries must be mounted in a tray made out of angle iron and have 3/8" studs or bolts with a 1" x 1/8" (or larger) strap over the top. 9. Cars must have rims no wider than 5.5" and in the spirit of the event, only bias ply street tires are allowed. No radials or modern "wrinkle wall" slicks allowed. Tire tread width can measure no wider than 6". 10. If a cooling system or water tank is used, car must have a radiator cap and an overflow (catch can) system. 11. Closed drive lines are encouraged... but not required. 12. If an open drive line is used, driveshaft must have an 1 1/2" x 1/4" "driveshaft loop" within 6 of front and rear universal joints AND be totally covered/ sealed off from driver with a sheet aluminum or steel floor pan. 13. Cars must have floor boards and/or belly pans. If a belly pan is used, car must have a sufficient structure to prevent drivers legs from pulling a "Fred Flintstone" if the belly pan is torn off or if it falls off. 14. All cars must have a firewall. 15. All cars must have a cowl or body to prevent drivers legs from exiting the vehicle in the event of a crash. 16. All cars must incorporate some type of "roll bar" one main hoop behind drivers head and two support towards the firewall. 17. All cars will be inspected for general soundness and safety. Things like sound steering, all lug nuts in place and safety belts required. Front suspension and steering components must be sound and all bolts and nuts must be tight. All lug nuts must be in place. All heim joints must be captured, cotter pins in place etc. 18. Fuel line(s) can have no single piece longer than 24", has to be fasted by hose clamps and may not be hard or cracked. 19. Cars must be built in the spirit of "The Bug" and other early "rail jobs". The appearence of the motors must remain "period correct" for the era of the cars. "Pre 1955". i.e. No Holley 4 barrel carbs, quadrajet carbs, HEI ignitions, billet pullies, MSD6AL boxes or other external modern electronics such as two step rev limiters. Petronix kits in stock distributors "OK"... No hidden MSD Boxes, or other spark intensifiers... VINTAGE Magnetos "OK". 20. Cars with keyed axles must be equipped with hub safety retainers. 21. Five point NHRA approved safety harness required. 22. Cars must be equipped with at least one rear red running light for night drags. Any and all items are open for discussion and explanation. After all, we dont want to exclude anyone if they arent to the letter of the law that would take the fun out of this. Sam.
The Jalopy Journal
