Technical Heim joints on rear radius rods

I wanted some input from you guys. I have two heim joints that measure 11/16" with 5/8" hole from Speedway. I've welded the bungs into my radius rods that I want to use on the rear end. Will these be strong enough? Im putting them on a Model A Coupe running a stock to mildly built SBC with posi and 7.20/ 16 bias Firestones.



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Good question, I am doing the same thing on my '14 model T single seater bobtail build it will be Volvo powered with model A rearend, my heims are 3\4" shank 3\4" hole. So I too would like here some input on this subject..,. Thanks. By the way your build in the background is looking good....

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Did a quick read over at the Speedway site. Seems like the precision ones are up to the task with the size you specified.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Shop/...ings and Accessories*GA_Sema_Part:Heim Joints

 

I have been told that price is a direct reflection of the quality of heim ends. There are some cheapies around that are ****. I have no actual experience with them because my fellow rodder buddies and I normally use the ends that come with Pete & Jake's style ladder bars, the large version of what is used on one end of 4-bar setups. Wish I could be of more help, but just don't know anyone who uses heim ends. I have always used the same 11/16"x 5/8" specs as you have.

 

I have used those heim joints on my 51 build and found they are good if you mate the diameter of the hole with the correct bolt. I am currently using a compe***ion engineering set for my new build( 1938 )


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I'm using them on my project and was told by a man, who does builds for Nostalgia G***er's, that they were good. Go for it!

 

In that 4 bar set up you are using four on each side. I will be using one on each side at the end of my radius rod therefore taking a lot more pressure. Anyone using them or know of someone with the same application as mine?


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they work ok BUT they can be a little noisy

 

They come in regular steel and chrome-moly versions; the chrome-moly versions are about twice the cost of regular steel and are over twice as strong. The extra cost is worth it.

 

What are you using for a torque arm? I am using a similar set up to this, sort of like ladder bars only on one side. Mine doesn't look as nice as Cory Taulbert's work, but will function the same.

 

Is the torque arm just to support the top end of the rear axle? Since the radius rods are typically only at the bottom of the axle?
I am thinking about running the setup that I saw on this car. He has a plate that is secured at two points on the rear of his radius rod. With no torque arm. Thoughts?



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Does nothing to prevent axle wrap under acceleration or braking. Prone to broken parts. Many threads here on the HAMB about split rear bones and various ideas to build a safe set up to handle power and braking.

 

Heim joints are okay on a race car, but I prefer to have a little "shock cushion" on HotRods . . . so I'd use something like this (Pete and Jakes has them, so do other folks).

 

Back to your original question, those are 'commercial' grade heims and are not durable enough. Go to McMaster Carr and you'll find higher grade heims there, I like the ones with bronze race that seats the ball. They have chrome moly too but they aren't need for what we do.

 

What does nothing? The torque bar or the picture that I posted of the blue modified? Not sure what you are referring to.


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He's talking about the picture and setup that you posted - with the two bolts holding a radius rod onto a long bracket. Without a torque tube or torque arm, that setup is asking for trouble - especially with any sort of heavy braking or higher horsepower - as the whole axle wants to 'twist' and will apply a huge amount of force to any single radius rod. As he noted, this is the stuff that shears bolts, bends rods, etc.. It should really have a dual rod type of setup (above and below the axle centerline), or a torque-tube or arm to control/manage the twisting torque being applied.

 

See also:
Art Morrison
Chris Alston
The Ch***is Shop
Always have to weigh strength, longevity, and price.
Unless you have a high horsepower engine and I'm guessing not with the rear tire shown, speaking to strength, you should be fine with a medium grade spherical rod end.
I'm with bored and stroked, the urethane/bushed ends work great, and actually, the ladder bars on my roadster have them on the rear with spherical ones on the front (pivot) and it has a pretty healthy engine.
I view this as I would engine oil, when it's time to change it, change it.

 

Cool, thanks for all the input guys.


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there are some new what they call "rose joints "?? manufactured -well maybe not new out ? but check out some rod manufacturers -shock companies -seen them on several off road sites -and several pro mod drag cars use them ! sorry i cant find a listing this time of day !! i have used alstons -4 link premium rod ends -big and almost indestrutable ?? good luck -mike

 

"Rose Joint" is British speak for what is generally known as a Heim joint in the US. Not into off roading but maybe someone has adopted the term over there. I am with the guys who are recommending the urethane bushed ends over Heims--a little bit of compliance goes a long way in keeping the whole package alive in a street driven situation.
I also agree that using a single wishbone based arm per side is asking for trouble. As has been discussed in multiple threads on the HAMB, the original Ford wishbone was simply meant to restrain the ends of the axle, the much heavier torque tube was what handled the tendency for the axle to rotate under load (hence its name).

Roo

 

That or use a quality tie rod end.... Heim joints on the street are noisy and short lived...

 

Alright here's what I am thinking. Thoughts?


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That'll work. Looks exactly like the way I've got the '55 Chev rear mounted in my '34. I made radius rods using '36 front bones and some heavy wall 1 1/4" DOM tubing as the upper chord. My project came with a set of short Speedway radius rods, which I didn't like the looks of, I used the Heim joints and ends of the threaded tubing (I cut the radius rods up) for mine. Either clevis' or Heim joints are fine for the fixed ends, I kept the Heim joints for the forward end, they should be fine behind my 283. I like your artwork, I do the same sketching to help figure things out!

 

Nice! Thanks for the visuals.


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These guys have very good rod ends / heim joints at very reasonable prices. I'm using the 5/8" chrome moly rod ends, the ball is made of bearing steel and they have a teflon impregnated nylon insert. 11 bucks. You'll be hard pressed to find a better joint for less.

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/RODENDS.html?gclid=CI7Z7MOYq9ACFQUEaQodfXEERg

 

"Blues4U", I just looked at your link. It looks like good stuff and a real variety. They have the weld in bungs and everything. Thanks.

 

I think your basic idea will work. I'd use a single 3/8" plate bracket on the rear housing and two clevises on that end. There really isn't a good reason to weld two plates and then use a heim joint for a non-articulating location. Also, you may want to use a 360 degree bracket on the housing - even if you have to split it. Having a weld that is 360 degrees will usually result in less housing warpage. I'd weld it in 1" p***es - alternating sides of the housing . . . keep the heat moving around the axle.

 

If you're indeed running a model a spring out back then you won't need a panhard rod if the spring is properly preloaded. The tension in the spring transferred through the shackles to the perches will keep the axle centered.

 

I used the smaller heim joints and double brackets only because the (Speedway) radius rods I used for bits had them. I'd have used clevises if I'd had them, as it was, I used what I had on hand. I'm cheap...;-)

 

Yeah after thinking about it I figured I may as well put two clevises in the back. Thanks for the confirmation. You guys think the rod end in front is sufficient for the slight rotational movement I'll get?
The 360 wrap of the rear bracket was in the plans also.


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