Technical HELP: 30 WEIGHT NON - DETERGENT - CALIFORNIA SUCKS

Beat me to the punch, but it seems an easy solution

 

So from this conversation you are saying I can run 10w30 oil as long as I have a filter?

 

As some said. The big issue with changing to a detergent oil is that high detergent oils will break the sludge lose and it ends being ****ed in by the oil pump and plugging the screen or oil p***ages.
You might try farm equipment stores to see what they offer for older tractors as far as oil goes.
Still if I couldn't get away without running non detergent I'd drop the pan and clean any sludge out and then change oil at a short mileage interval for a couple of oil changes to try and get the gunk out.
Back when that sealed oil filter was installed they still changed oil every thousand miles while changing the filter every 5K. I remember going down to a gas station with my dad to have the oil changed on a trip from here to San Diego when I was young after we got to San Diego. He had changed oil before we left and changed it again when we got back. That was in a 51 Ford.

 

Sactownog, that’s what I think everybody’s saying. I gather you do not want to pull the pan, don’t blame you. What I would do is buy a cheap bore scope, drain the oil, look into the pan through the drain hole. If it looks clean, change to a modern oil and change the filter. Just what I would do.... Bones

 

Back in the day, I worked on old Mercedes industrial engines. Oil that looked like tar was a common problem, we would add diesel to thin it down and wash them out some.
So when I got my Willys... flathead ford V8, it didn't have an oil change in 20-30 years or more, per last owner. He didn't want to change it as he thought it would smoke due to use of non-detergent oil. It had tremendous amount of sludge in the pan.
I figured I didn't have much to loose, so I drained some oil, added #2 diesel and ran it for a while. Changed the oil to transmission fluid and ran it some more. Flushed it all out and refilled with fresh 10-30, that was about 5 years ago. She runs great and no smoke. I am not recommending it, but it worked on alot of old Mercedes engines.

 

I would never take my car to TJ. that place is the true WILD WEST.

 

It actually has to do with a senate bill that requires all oils to be good for 10,000 mi. by January 2018. Theory is it cuts down on use and contamination of our air and environment. Non detergent is known as a "SA" rated oil and according to Sacramento Politicians it is antiquated.
Link below for those interested
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/15-16/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_778_cfa_20150427_162850_sen_comm.html

 

Is this a new thing? I bought some 30w non-detergent at my grocery store 4 or 5 months ago. I'll have to look the next time I go there.

 

New as of January 1, 2018

 

My question would be . Is that filter a factory installed item or was that a add on by a previous owner. If it was a factory stock item , I am perplexed as to why the manufacturer would recommend non detergent oil with a filter ?
Vic

 

Did we have detergent oil in '53?

 

You should run 10W30 with or without a filter. If some goober has sludged up the motor running good ol' non detergent 30, decent oil could cause problems. I haven't seen it, and oil company engineers say detergent oil does not wash sludge out of the engine, but some guys say otherwise. If you can take off the pan and clean it out then it doesn't matter.

 

Detergent oil was available by 1947. Multigrade in 1951. Before about 1937 oil had natural detergents, after that new refining methods took it out, when they found out this was causing sludge problems they added them back. It doesn't work like laundry detergent but unfortunately some folks ***umed it does.

 

Cheaper cars like Dodge Ford and Chev came stock with NO oil filter. If you wanted a filter it was an extra, installed by the dealer. The cheapest kind was was the kind the OP has where you replace the whole unit. More expensive was the cartridge filter where you take off the lid and just replace the filter element. These cost more initially but the cartridges were cheaper.

They recommended a filter for cleaner oil, less wear, less sludge, longer oil change intervals and longer engine life. They recommended non detergent oil when that was all there was. As soon as detergent oil came on the market, they recommended it.

 

I doubt that it would be factory, with Wix on it, I’m sure it’s a add on. Quite common back in the day. Bones

 

On the question of full flow or byp***. Possibly the last word was from a Studebaker mechanic who rebuilt hundreds of Studebaker V8s. They came with a byp*** filter from 1952 until about 1961 then full flow for the last couple of years. He said the amount of sludge and wear was about the same for both, depending on mileage more than what type of filter. He said some Studebaker guys will pay a premium for the later full flow block but he wouldn't. In his experience there is no difference in wear or engine life.

One thing I did notice is that full flow filters really came in when they went to hydraulic lifters. This is because a small spec of dirt will block the oil hole in a hydraulic lifter, causing problems.

Byp*** filters came in about 1930 and for 15 years were the only kind available. Full flow filters became the standard in the early to mid fifties. As I said, Studebaker stuck with the byp*** but they also stuck with solid lifters.

The problem with the byp*** was that a bit of dirt could byp*** the filter and go into the oil galleries. It would get caught eventually but it might go through the engine a couple of times.

Think of a pool filter. It draws in and filters only a small part of the water at any one time but over a couple of days with make a murky pool sparkling clean. Same with a byp*** filter, it filters all the oil just not all at once. It may take half an hour for all the oil to be filtered but it is filtered cleaner than a full flow filter.

 

Sacto your car probably came with a filter when new. The Wix is a replacement installed by some garage probably in the sixties or seventies. Does it get hot after a drive? Does your oil stay clean? If so it is still working and not completely full of dirt and sludge.

It is possible the filter was added when it was a used car but not likely.

 

A Hot rod shop told me it was added later. I am going to get some 10w30 and hope for the best. HOW MANY QUARTS DOES A FLATHEAD 6 TAKE?

 

For those who think you HAVE to run good ol' 30 non detergent in an old engine get a load of this. It is a do***entary on Pierce Arrow's 1932 record breaking Bonneville run. This is a 1932 Pierce Arrow V12 with poured babbit bearings. They set a record of 117MPH AVERAGE FOR 24 HOURS. That means he was running well over 120 most of the time. To put this in perspective at the time Rolls Royce warned their owners not to drive at full throttle for more than 5 minutes or they would blow their motor. The Rolls topped out about 90.

Watch them fill the motor with Pennzoil sae 20. That is the big take away. 2o weight oil for a full throttle, flat out 24 hour record attempt on the Bonneville salt flats, in August, with the temp over 100 degrees in the day time.



See them add the Pennzoil 20 at 10:40

Now tell me why your flathead six won't tootle around the block without blowing up, if you don't use good ol' 30.

By the way I have seen Chrysler's owner's manuals from the early fifties. They recommend 30 weight oil only in severe summer service when temps are in the 80 -100 range and don't fall below 70.

 

Pistons and rods reciprocate right? https://www.mcmaster.com/#non-detergent-oil/=1c8rqiu

 

Ok go get the aluminum oil filter adapter that bolts to a FE ford or a Pontiac V8. make a plate from steel or heavy aluminum to bolt it too. drill and tap it to accept fittings to attach your existing oil lines. and fab a mounting bracket. you now have a choice of several brands of spin on throwaway oil filters. I have some of those Frantz toilet paper filters. And after using them Im convinced they actually do what the manufacturer claims.

 

How many miles will this Dodge flathead 6 get driven?

 

I have used and sold byp*** filters for over 20 years, and they are highly effective for the reasons noted above. Element filters are slightly harder to find, but Amsoil has a screw on byp*** filter that can filter down to less than one micron.
I use synthetic oil in everything from my airplane engine, antique stationary engines, excavator, Bobcat, as well as my cars. I wouldn't use anything else in a good tight engine no matter how old it is.
The modern byp*** filters are normally installed by adding a br*** T to the place on the block at the oil pressure indicator fitting. Approximately 10% of the circulating oil is metered through the filter, and the outlet is normally located in the oil pan below the oil level. This is done to prevent misting.
I had one on a Toyota diesel that went over 30,000 miles on synthetic oil without an oil change. This was accomplished because, at the routine mileages where I would normally change the oil, I pulled a sample for spectromatic oil ****ysis.
In the jets I flew, a sample of oil is pulled from each engine approximately once per week, (100 hours), and the synthetic oil stays in these engines until the engine is repaired or changed. We had one engine that went 25,000 hours.
The early multi grade petroleum oils were a problem because they were nothing more than a mixture of the regular oil stock and light ends to reduce the viscosity at low temperatures. The problem with these oils was, that in heavy duty use, such as in trucks, or marine use, the light ends would burn off and the remaining oil became too thick to adequately lubricate the engine. This gave multi grade oils a bad name that they had a difficult time overcoming.
Oil technology has changed a remarkable amount in the last 30 years.
Bob

 

Drive to Az. Buy a case or two of oil and drive home. Probably will last your life time or the life of the car.

 

Moonshiners driving at night would get a late start. Driving to Arizona, you'll need to get an oily start.

 

The Amsoil filter sounds like a good one, and it is available from Amzoil dealers. So you will be able to get replacements in the future. Only drawback is, it does not have a 'vintage' or 'period' appearance, if that concerns you.

I agree about the synthetic oil although that may be a little avante garde for this crowd. The OP said his Dodge only has about 35000 miles on it so it should be OK. Synthetic has a way of seeking out the smallest leaks and making them worse which is why synthetic is not recommended for most old cars.

You mentioned that the early multigrade oils did not stand up well in severe service. This is why VW did not recommend multigrade oil in the fifties and sixties. Their air cooled engines ran hotter than the typical Detroit models. Today's engines run far hotter down inside than the old VWs and modern oil is formulated to stand the heat. Another reason you don't need thick oil. In fact thick oil will shorten the life of your engine. Any engineer can tell you that 90% of the wear happens in the first 2 minutes after starting, before the oil has circulated around to all the parts. Many parts get little or no oil at this time. The thicker the oil the longer it takes to get full lubrication.

 

Run regular oil, or move.

 

Amazon sells non detergent oil. At one time I ran new engines with 20wt non detergent for 20 minutes then thru it away. If your going to keep the truck take off the pan, clean everything, add a aftermarket byp*** filter, and finally stick in 1qt of ATF with every oil change.
For light use of your truck use 20 straight or even 5-20. Good luck.
ps: in 67 I had one those and bought a wrecked 60 Chrysler with a 361/Torqueflight and made the swap.... A great pick up

 

I need some clarification. Does not all the oil circulate throughout the engine? If so, then wouldn't a by-p*** filter eventually filter all oil? And a full flow filter cannot filter all the oil at once as the oil flow has to p*** through it which would then eventually filter all the oil.
So, why are full flow considered better and how much better are they? Rusty O'toole, are you listening.

 

There is always unfiltered oil going through the oil system in a byp*** filtered engine. There is usually* only filtered oil going through the oil system in a full flow filter system.

If it's really bothering you, pull the pan and clean the sludge out of it. Run normal modern oil. If you don't have a filter, then change it every 1000-2000 miles. If you have a full flow filter, then you can let it go a bit longer, perhaps 3000 miles.

But without knowing the condition of the engine, how often you drive it how far, how much you enjoy changing oil, your budget, your plans for the rest of the life of the vehicle, etc., all our recommendations are kind of blind.

You could also move, as suggested by a wise person a few posts above.
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*there is a byp*** valve that lets unfiltered oil through when things get too hectic