I just changed ball joints and lower bushings on my '63 T-Bird. Before the rebuild, I was only able to get 2* negative caster out of the passenger side. Afterward, I can only get 4* negative, probably because the new bushing is tight so I can't use the slop to get more caster. The driver's side is fine...I can adjust anywhere from 1.5* negative to 1* positive or so. Any ideas? I did some quick measurements underneath, and the frame brackets look like they're in the right spots. Nothing else is obviously wrong to me. I'm stumped, and usually I can work my way through problems like this. I'd hate to just start throwing parts at it.
Some cars get frame sag which usually affects camber, but maybe it has been in an accident and not straightened correctly? And yes I know it's a unibody.
Measure from somewhere on the frame rail like under the seat area, there's usually holes in the frame rails in this area, and measure to the center of each lower ball joint grease zerk. That much caster difference I'm betting a lower arm back, it would be on the neg caster side. Check lower arms for bends too.
These days, one could take this 'Bird to a FRONT END SHOP, (says so on the sign!) and the 'tech' would no more take a measurement (they call that a 'hard measurement', LOL) so they just don't bother. "Hang the mirrors, look at the screen..." To detect bent members, all it takes is getting under, finding good factory holes, (they were 'locaters' at the factory) and do exactly as @lostone outlined. Likewise, check uppers as well. 'Hard measurements' made easy...
Thanks guys...I actually called up a local frame/suspension shop that's been around a while and talked to the guy who answered the phone. They said they'd check out the frame measurements for me...I actually took it out to storage today and swapped another car because I was a little sick of looking at it. I find that when I get frustrated, it's best to take a little break before something breaks. Once I get it figured out, I'll post what I come up with.
On thing comes to mind and that is that mounting point for the front strut on that side might be pushed back just enough to cause the excess negative caster by pushing the lower control arm back a bit extra. A hard bump on a high curb could cause that. .
They get whacked on those parking lot stops often. I saw some with buggered threads on the 'Birds and other cars. I would see how it drives before doing anything too funky. Drive on a variety of roads to see if it has a pull first. The caster adjustment on those has an impact on the toe as well, make sure the front end guy knows that.
It is definitely nervous on the road (has been since I bought it last October). I think it's a combination of things...first, the ball joints and lower bushings were just worn out. Now, it's got a lot of cross caster, so it pulls to the right. I normally set up my own alignments because I have 7 old cars and I don't mind doing it, but if the frame guy can figure out what's bent and can straighten it, I'll let him align it. I was in a little bit of a red haze yesterday, but I called my dad over and we did a quick measurement of the wheelbase between hubs. One of the sides was .5 inches longer, and I can't remember which one it was. I actually think it was the side with the bad caster.
The car will pull towards the side with the leading upper ball joint. Meaning the most negative caster angle. Which fits your pull to the right and that -2 to -4 angle.
I took the car in to the frame/alignment shop today, and he said that the major points measure out OK. The upper ball joint, however, is obviously forward of where it should be. He told me I could shim it out in front if I used a longer upper control arm attachment bolt, which was an option I was considering, but judging by the way things look, I'm wondering if someone used a driver's side control arm on the passenger side. They look almost identical, but apparently they're different (Thanks again Jim (aka Squirrel), for looking in the Hollander manual). Either way, I've ordered a used control arm from a salvage yard and a new upper shaft. If that doesn't fix it, I'll shim it out. More to come as the parts come in.
Probably been hit in that wheel at sometime in its life, mustangs were bad about it and funny so is late model Chevy pick ups of the upper arm moving in and bending the tower on mustangs and frame rails on Chevy trucks.
Good call on the wrong upper arm. I always mark them when I take them off the car just to be safe. A couple of dots with a hammer and punch is what I use. I only mark the right side parts.
I think I've got this problem under control...A lot of little issues seemed to stack up. First, someone installed the upper control arm shaft bushings incorrectly; the shaft wasn't centered. That caused the control arm to sit too far forward. The driver's side shaft is not centered either, but it's in the positive direction, so I left that one. Since I wanted to get as close to 0* caster as I could on both wheels (remember that maximum specs in the manual is .75* negative!!!), I installed a 1/8 shim behind the front bolt on the upper control arm, and I used a turnbuckle to pull the lower control arms as far forward as I could within the range of adjustability of the lower strut rods. So now, it's set up with 0.2* negative caster on the right front, and 0.2* positive on the left front. The camber on both wheels is 0.2* negative, and I'm running about 3/32 toe-in. It was a lot of work and thought to get it together, but at least I can check that off the list for now. On to the next item on the list...
Cool beans, I do believe you have a handle on it. It's been so long since I did front end work every day I forgot about those shafts that have to go back a certain way or everything is thrown off. Most control arms are so obvious as to what side they go to that I missed that one too.
Very important to get the shaft and arm centered! Ford made a tool for this, I never saw or used one in all the bushings I had changed. It will definitely have an impact on the caster if it is far off. I would clean up the shaft and arm, scribe a center line so I could get it as close as possible to where it was. Not that easy since the bushings have a coarse inner thread and fine outer, where it attaches to the arm. The big trick is not to strip the find thread out of the arm.
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