Help! I cant get timing set. Problem solved and yes I'm a dumass

Standard bore 283, can't remember cam grind ( have it at home, will post it tonight if it helps ) i remember it's a comp 270H cam- lifters set. Petronix ignition. I did use a 305 harmonic balancer and timing chain cover (everyone I talked to said it would work fine). Put the motor in Saturday, put # 1 at tdc wired it up. It started and sounded great. Broke in the cam, set the idle down. Noticed it didn't have any throttle response. Started adjusting the timing with a light, drove it around the block, had no power at all. Played with it all day Sunday and got it running better around to but still has no power and will most not run on freeway. Pops and sputters alot. To run around town it at about 50 degrees advanced with a timing tape. I don't know what is going on. I put the timing chain at stock setting ( not advance or retarded ). It has a Q jet on it right now that ran fine on the other motor. It just seems like the timing is so far off and I can't get it even close. I think I will pull the front back apart and check the timing chain again.
Anyone have any ideas ?
Thanks for any help.
I was trying to get this motor in for round up , but I won't make it like this.

 

there are different dampers and with the different dampers there are several timing marks, so you may have a timing mark and pointer that is not right for the engine.

If you have a vac*** guage you can set it to the highest reading and back off two inches.


Or you can get a piston stop and check TDC with the damper and pointer you have.

with the stop in the cylinder you rotate the egnie until it hits the stop and then mark the damper at the zero mark on the pointer, then go backwards until it hits again, and mark the damper at the zero makr on the pointer, the MIDDLE of the 2 marks is true TDC, then you can re set the timing.

 

Your problem is probably the timing chain/gear installation. My son had a no=power and heating problem in his 57 Chevy with 327. Pulled the timing cover and there was the problem. It happens.

 

Oh forgot the cam is supposed to work with a stock converter. It also has almost no vacuum at idle ( a little gas and the vacuum advance is moving). It's a new double roller chain and I don't know enough about advancing or regarding it with the gears so I put it on stock settings.

 

I have seen it done and think you may have it on the wrong cylinder # 1 is on drivers side.If they get mixed your one off.

 

And when at tdc the mark on the balencer does line up with the tab on the cover

 

I know

 

It's chevy,,,what do you expect?

 

Aw man that was low. Hell I cant afford to rebuild a ford anyway.

 

Pulled the front apart tonight and checked the timing chain again. It was set right. Got it back together , checked number 1 and still has the same issue. Now I'm really lost.

 

I'm wondering about the cam, and also the possibility of a vacuum leak if you have almost no vacuum at idle. This could also create the no power issue. Better start checking around with some starting fluid. Spray it around the carb base, and intake gaskets to see if the engine idle goes up to discover where it may be leaking.

 

Is the timing mark on the damper on 0 on the tab at TDC on number one. As Dooley said there are several different dampers that will all go on the crank snout but have different locations for the timing mark due to where the tab is on a particular timing cover. If you used a damper and cover that match it shouldn't be a problem but a lot of the later small blocks have the timing marks at 12 O'clock on the engine. If you used the 305 damper and a bolt on chrome tab that may be the problem.

First you need to make sure that the timing marks actually line up when number one is up on top dead center. After you have that covered you can work on making it run right.

I and a lot of others have seen dampers that the ring has slipped on and throws the timing off but that is usually on engines that rap quick and inertia causes them to slip. I've seen one that was probably due to the amount of oil covering every thing on the exterior of the engine though.

 

I ***ume you didn't degree in the cam when it was installed. It sounds like you're off 1 tooth on the timing chain, I've done it myself...

 

Had this problem on a couple of small block Corvettes I have. Both times it was a freshly rebuilt engine with a formerly good harmonic balancer. They must get loosened up when you take them off and put them back on. Anyway, they had "slipped" and the timing marks had moved. Do what the guy above recommended and use a vacuum gauge to set the timing. It'll probably run great. Then check the timing with a light, and I'll bet you find the timing marks are waaaaay off. Then send your balancer to this guy: www.dalemfg.com. If you don't get it fixed, it could disintegrate and ruin a lot more than your timing.

When this first happened to me, I just figured that the timing marks on a factory balancer HAD to be correct. They weren't, and I chased the problem for weeks. I'll never rebuild an engine again without doing the harmonic balancer as well.

 

I dunno about the no vacuum at idle. My 283 is almost bone stock, and I get little vacuum through the advance at idle, rev it up and it could **** the....well, you get the idea.

 

It is a 305 balancer with the 305 timing tab at 12 o clock. The marks on the chain are lined up. But even ignoring the tdc mark on the balancer and bringing number one up to tdc and wiring up off the rotor it will start and idle but has no throttle response. I have to advance the **** out of it to get any throttle response and it still runs like like ****. Could the cam be to big? It is supposed to work with a stock converter.

 

As has been mentioned, you need to VERIFY tdc - the use of a piston stop (post # 2) is the easiest way to do that, without tearing your engine apart.

 

Are you getting any vacuum advance? Set static timing with vacuum advance line unplugged from vacuum source, with the source plugged (you did unplug the vacuum advance when you set initial timing? Yes?). Now at idle attach the vacuum advance hose and note the difference. Are you getting any centrifugal advance? Once again disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the source. Rev it to about 3000 and note the difference. Report back. Some SBC guys on here will evaluate and diagnose your distributor.

 

Just a dumb shot in the dark, have you tried turning your distributor around 180 and seeing if you can get any closer? You say you're advancing it a lot....but perhaps you're not advancing it at all. Perhaps it's actually very retarded. One trick I used when I needed another 15 degrees or so of movement to get it running right, I removed the dizzy retaining clip/bolt and slowly picked up the unit, careful not to completely disengage it from the oil pump...you'll feel it slip off the teeth, at that point, try rotating it clockwise 10-20 degrees and set it back down, secure it. Then try advancing it and see where that gets you. It solved my problem, maybe it'll help you. Try all this easy stuff that folks are suggesting before you get to thinking it's something major....it's usually one of the dumb things.

 

The last 283 I had was many moons ago but the vacuum advance was connected to full manifold vacuum (59 Belair). It was one of the carb hold down studs that was hollow. I also had the rubber slip on a 327 and it wouldn't even run if you got the timing marks anywhere near the pointer. As a matter of fact I have seen it a few times on custmer cars, always chevys too. I would also try the time it with a vacuum gauge method and see what happens.

 

You can also double check your spark plugs. Make sure there isn't one with a closed gap. Did that once a long time ago.Also make sure you aren't running plugs with too long of an end which can stick the electrode down too far, getting close to the piston keeping it wet or flooded. Did that once recently.

Also have you checked to see what your compression looks like?

 

Did you try adjusting the timing while it was running without a timing light? I haven't used a timing light in 30 years. I don't give a **** where the timing mark is as long as it starts easily and runs well. When I first get it running I keep advancing it until it starts to run poorer, back it up some and try it. Get the most advance out of it that will still keep it from pinging under a load at operating temp. That is the best that you can get with the current gas available and the grade of gas that you are using. I've seen too many spun balancers and incorrect hotrod timing pointers to trust a timing light. Once you get it running right, then check it with a light if you want to see where to set it the next time you pull the distributor but I can get it running right before you can get the timing light from the tool box.

 

You also might need a distributor advance kit ,Comes with lighter springs and weights,First do the va***n guage and set timing ,I only back off one.aqfter everything is adjusted try the full port and ported va***n idea posted Then try the weights and springs and readjust everything ,Weights and springs will give you an earlier or later curve ,Usually earlier

 

If you timing mark is tdc piston up,and timing light is very close thats good,Now for the bad if you have a hot cam you will have low val***e,they say small engines don,t idle well.I have a 302 ford and someone put a hot cam and mine would idle stalls putting in gear.What i need to do is change the cam and put a stock one in and forget about what its sounds like.If you are racing thats another thing.The is another thing one time they marked the gear on wrong side and messes up your timing to cam.You still have tdc but other timing is off.

 

Ok when the factory marks are lined up on the timing chain, you rotate the crank a little clock wise (looking at it) the intake valve starts to compress.
Shouldn't the exhaust valve be the one to compress after a compression stroke?

 

It would not run if it was that far off.

 

I am running the same cam in my '63 283 that you have and do not have any problems like you describe. Mine is bored .040, running the 270H cam, stock '63 heads, Edelbrock Performer intake with an Edelbrock carb, Mallory distributor converted to electronic all in front of a T-5. The cam has a very mild idle and should have good vacuum. I replaced the harmonic balancer with one from Summit and the timing mark no where matches the original. I use a vacuum gauge to check timing and have much better luck than using a timing light. It does sound like you may have a vacuum leak somewhere. I am running power brakes and still don't have any problems.

Good luck with your troubleshooting.

 

Loosen the distributor, rev the motor to 3,000 rpm, twist the distributor clockwise till it starts to miss then counter clockwise till it starts to miss then lock it half way between these points and that will give you a base point to start from. It should run good enough to drive and check idle timming etc. If timmimg chain and balancer are ok the timming should look close or your ballancer is off etc.

 

I was looking at the cam specs,and its a performance cam,if you have a roller timing chain,and the small crankchaft has 3 key ways,i think you can move your valve timing 6degs +/-,just by moving to another key way, TDC piston up does,nt change.
If your mark is good as you say mark out about 30 degs,with a timing light at about 2000 rpms,put your timing there,see if any better.

 

You were not on the compression stroke on #1 The marks line up twice for each cylinder before it fires. Put your thumb in the #1 sparkplug hole as you bump it around to find the compression stroke of #1