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Technical Help Identifying Frankland QC

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Originalien, Jan 8, 2023.

  1. Originalien
    Joined: Dec 9, 2022
    Posts: 13

    Originalien

    I'm attaching some pictures, I tried online searches and can't find any product data on this older Frankland Quick Change.

    I'm also stumped by the Axle/hubs, I'm not sure if they came with the QC from Frankland or were added by the owner. They're marked HRE, and although there are 5 lugs, it looks like it's designed to accept 10 lugs. The widest portion of hub housing where the wheel Center bore outer edge would seat is @ 220mm and the distance between 2 of the 10 lug holes directly opposite one another is @ 255mm.

    I purchased this from someone who picked it up at an estate auction because it was cool, he doesn't know anything about it and unfortunately the owner had passed away.

    Any information you can provide would be much appreciated and 100% more than I currently have.
    Screenshot_20221210-191633~2.png Screenshot_20221210-191621~2.png Screenshot_20221210-191703~2.png Screenshot_20221210-191709~2.png Screenshot_20221210-191659~2.png
     
  2. '29 Gizmo
    Joined: Nov 6, 2022
    Posts: 1,130

    '29 Gizmo
    Member
    from UK

  3. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,367

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    The hubs are from Howe Racing Enterprises, and if memory serves me right, the rotors and calipers are 3/4 ton GM pieces, like '73-87.
     
    Robert J. Palmer and Originalien like this.
  4. Originalien
    Joined: Dec 9, 2022
    Posts: 13

    Originalien

    Thanks for the lead, I looked at the Howe Racing Enterprises website, couldn't find anything comparable; I'll drop them an email in case it's something they used to make/sell. Yeah hard to find wheels with a large enough hub center bore to fit those hubs. I'll those GM out, I'll need some strong calipers to fit those discs, a friend suggested Willwood, but money is an object. Thanks again
     
  5. Originalien
    Joined: Dec 9, 2022
    Posts: 13

    Originalien

  6. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,367

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    That rear is from a Late Model stock car or perhaps a Modified, and the hubs are designed to run Wide 5 racing wheels.
     
    Originalien likes this.
  7. Originalien
    Joined: Dec 9, 2022
    Posts: 13

    Originalien

    Good to know, sounds like I need to connect with the racing community in my area, once again thank you for your help.
     
  8. Jay McDonald
    Joined: Apr 6, 2020
    Posts: 162

    Jay McDonald

    vintage dirt track material, not good hot rod material
     
    Originalien likes this.
  9. Frames
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 5,260

    Frames
    Member

    Forget the other holes. ALL aftermarket racing hubs like these use the 36-39 10 1/4 " Ford car wide 5 bolt pattern. Early racing hubs had 1/2-20 lug bolts. Later hubs used 5/8-18 then later yet 5/8-11 . The rotors are most likely Howe. The caliper brackets accept GM early CAR calipers or aftermarket light weight iron GM type made by Howe. Or aluminum ones made by Howe , Wilwood, Sierra. Most likely others too. I have 2 hot rods with GM type Wilwood aluminum calipers. I doubt you intend to use this QC. The biggest concern should be. Does it have a spool in it. Most likely. track roadster 6-14-16 004.JPG 2020-10-09 19.56.03-4.jpg 2020-10-09 19.56.03-5.jpg View attachment 5614309
     
    Originalien likes this.
  10. Originalien
    Joined: Dec 9, 2022
    Posts: 13

    Originalien

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2023
  11. 1biggun
    Joined: Nov 13, 2019
    Posts: 893

    1biggun

    I bet its got the obsolete course spline axles in it also. ( early ford truck )
    At least its got the axles in it a lot do not when you find them .
    Likely running a spool and no differential .

    Im retrofitting one with a differential that takes 31 spline ford 9" axles and ends. Then I can narrow it to what ever I decide
     
    seb fontana and Originalien like this.
  12. Frames
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 5,260

    Frames
    Member

    I don't know what year GM started using calipers on the front of all their vehicles but it seemed like they used them for many years. Salvage yard cheapest way to go. I have paid $35.00 each for the later smaller iron metric GM replacements at Advance. Next cheapest, I have a used pair aluminum Wilwood for sale This is the other hot rod [ #525 lakes modidfied ] with GM type aluminum calipers. Really GREAT brakes. img182.jpg
     
    Originalien likes this.
  13. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,367

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Listen to Frames on this, he knows what he is talking about.
     
    Originalien likes this.
  14. Frames
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 5,260

    Frames
    Member

    I built this Winters Q C to sell. New 12 spline axles. New housing tubes. RICHMOND locker. Kinda giving up on selling it. Don't want to give it away. I may weld on the GM type caliper brackets and get some wide 5 hubs. Then try to sell or put it in my museum. [ Pretty dusty under the bench ] 2022-12-31 19.44.39-1.jpg 2022-12-31 19.44.39-2.jpg 2022-12-31 19.44.39-3.jpg 2022-12-31 19.44.39-4.jpg
     
    Originalien likes this.
  15. Originalien
    Joined: Dec 9, 2022
    Posts: 13

    Originalien

    Great info, Thank You
     
  16. Originalien
    Joined: Dec 9, 2022
    Posts: 13

    Originalien

    Thanks, I'll check that out
     
  17. Originalien
    Joined: Dec 9, 2022
    Posts: 13

    Originalien

    I appreciate the information, Thank You
     
  18. Frames
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 5,260

    Frames
    Member

    You got a lot to learn about brakes. Late 70's I think. William Wood went into the brake business when leaving Airheart. The GREAT Mark Martin spent many hours lightening up heavy stock GM calipers. He never lost brakes. Larry Detjens told his car builder to put GM brakes on his car or he would do it himself. Being a race car builder I wasn't going to use that iron stuff. Larry in the Bemco car and drivers in my cars were losing brakes using brand W. Howe came out with a light weight iron GM type. Then I used them. Brake problems were over. Yes Bill has fixed his brakes since then. Don't ever bad mouth GM early calipers. We didn't even have to use cooling ducts!
     
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  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,403

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Says you.

    I would weld brackets on the tubes for GM (pre-Metric) calipers, and put it right under my next build, Wide-5 hubs and all.

    16 x 4" wheels on the front, and my in-house produced 16 x 6.5" wheels on the back.

    Wide-5 wheels have been used in racing, and under hot rods, since 1936.
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,403

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This will just about 100% interchange parts with Winters parts, that are all currently available.

    The hubs have two sets of holes, but are intended to just use 5 of them. The other set is there in case you spin out a wheel stud at the track. Instead of losing a day of racing, you move the studs to the other set of holes.

    This wheel bolt pattern is called Ford Wide-5. It is 5-on-10-1/4". It was used on Ford passenger cars and light trucks from 1936 to 1939, and continued a little later on some other trucks.

    It became the standard for dirt track racing, and is still used to this day.

    The hub style is full-float, like a 1-ton, or larger truck, meaning the hub is supported by the axle housing tube, and not the axle shaft itself. The axle shaft just turns the hub. Snap axle at the track? Just yank it out and slide in another one! Racers were all kinds of crafty.

    Your axle has real 1-ton axle shafts in it. Later ones don't have that flange, are splined at both ends, and drive a drive-plate on the hub.

    The rotors are race stuff, held to the back of the hubs with 8-bolts. They are exactly the same ones still in-use today. You could have another set by Tuesday, for $58.66/ea. for the regular ones (not slotted/drilled/etc).

    Caliper brackets for pre-Metric GM calipers are a whopping $12.99/ea.

    Calipers (fronts used for rear) can be had for $26.99 (+$10 core), so you don't even need to get dirty at the wrecking yard. Lifetime warranty pads are $35.99.

    One big caveat is that this axle might not actually have a differential in it. It might have a spool, meaning that the two axle shafts are locked together, which is not so good for the street.

    That can be changed. Virtually indestructible differentials can be had, used, on eBay, or from your local racer!

    EDIT: Never mind the caliper brackets, you already have them. You need loaded 1969-1977 GM front calipers, and hoses.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2023
    Originalien likes this.
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,403

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you don't want to run the Wide-5 pattern, and would rather another wheel bolt pattern, you can press the axle tubes out of the side bells, and replace them with ones that have Ford big bearing style ends.

    Unless it is a very early axle, the differential should have 31-splines, the very same 31-splines as a Ford axle (crafty racers).

    If you do that, you can get cut-to-fit axle shafts, and just put Ford brake, type and size of your choosing, in whatever pattern you want.

    The best part of that is that you don't even need to go to the internet to do this.

    You could head down to your local salvage yard and get any old full-size ford truck rear axle (just make sure that it has 3" axle tubes). It does not matter what it is. Use those axle tubes, and complete brake setups. Just replace the axle shafts.
     
    Originalien likes this.
  22. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,367

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    I too, am thinking hard about using one on the street, under a 4200 lb barge. It is powered by a Ford FE, and overdrive transmissions are unavailable without an adapter. A quick change with a couple sets of gears will give me all of the gearing options I want, and there is enough room under there for it to fit.
     
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  23. Frames
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 5,260

    Frames
    Member

    If you paid next to nothing for this QC. Install 3" tubes with 9" ends. You can use a stock 3/4 ton carrier with 28 or 31 spline side gears. Gearheads QCE has the part numbers. If it has a 12 spline locker Dutchman can make 9" axles with 12 splines. They kept side gear I sent them to make sure they cut the right splines. Ask yourself am I in over my head.
     
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  24. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,403

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Were this mine all I would do is verify if it has a spool or not.

    If no spool, I would run it as-is.

    If it has a spool, I would swap that, and the axle shafts out.

    A lot of folks will say that you can run a spool on the street. That might depend on where you live.

    Chirping tires on even slow corners, or in a parking lot can attract the attention of the local PD. That rarely ends well.
     
  25. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,403

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not even a little hard.

    Ford Wide-5 wheels exist in 16 x 3-1/2", 16 x 4", 16 x 5", and 18 x (not sure and good luck finding those).

    That is ford V8-60, Ford passenger car and light truck, Lincoln Zephyr, and milktruck. There were probably a few more fitments, but I forget. Everything but trucks was 1936-1939.

    Narrower 16's can be easily widened using the shells (hoops) from 1996-2001 Chrysler minivan 16" steel wheels. Those are 16 x 6-1/2", and have safety beads.

    It is easy enough that even I can do it (16 x 4" left, 16 x 6-1/2" right):
    PXL_20210117_025334316.jpg

    PXL_20210704_013224452.jpg Brand new wheels, in black (flat or gloss), chrome, or aluminum (and bare, or gray, or blue, or red, or green or gold, or pink, or purple, or white, and even beadlock) are a few mouse clicks away, 15" in diameter, in widths from 8' to 14", in more backspacings than I can count.
     
  26. We do live in different worlds. When I owned the Rocky33 my dad and I went out for beers and pizza one night. Leaving the sports bar with a cop sitting across the street I got on it a little harder than I planned. Cop just smiled as we drove away......
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,403

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nope. Cops here in CA don't care, but I have been in small towns, mostly in Texas, where barking your baloneys in the doughnut shop parking lot will put your car on a flatbed.
     
    Tman likes this.
  28. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,670

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    Whew! You guys got this pretty well covered. You've been paying attention, Grasshoppers.:)

    It appears that both sides are the same length which isn't the most common configuration.

    What the OP needs to do is pull an axle and show us the splines. I'm sure they started out as 12s but there is enough meat to respline them to 31.

    Some 12 spline lockers can be converted to 31.
    I might have an old Detroit locker with 12 splines.

    I do have one that has a 31 spline side gear on one side and a 12 spline on the other. :D
     
  29. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,367

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    A couple things I would like to know are, how far into the side bells do the axle tubes need to go, and what is the overall width of the center section with the side bells attached. That info would help me out immensely.
     
  30. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,403

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I cannot say for sure, but @GearheadsQCE may be able to turn on the big light, I believe that since these largely interchange parts with Winters, the dimensions should follow.

    upload_2023-1-10_12-7-50.png
     

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