Yes, the light is in sync with the noise. I hooked the light to #8 plug wire. Going to try to pull the intake tonight and see what's going on. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Did you cut open the oil filter. Babitt will not stick to a magnet, but lifter cam material will ! If steel in oil materal be a slury of steel.
"Yes the light is In sync with noise" Ok - ??? Yes to which one of highlanders descriptions??? His first description is - Flash/thunk - off/thunk - flash/thunk - off/thunk Indicating the noise frequency is 2x as fast as the flash which coincides with engine rpm and to a bottom end issue. Anything attached to the crankshaft - Crank Flywheel & incidentally anything attached to it. Bearings, rod and main Connecting rods Wrist pins Pistons Something hitting the crank Foreign object in the cylinder. His second description is- Flash/thunk - flash/thunk - flash/thunk- flash/thunk indicating the noise frequency is equal to the flash which coincides with cam speed (1/2 engine rpm) . Anything attached/ driven by the cam shaft. Timing chain & gears Cam Lifters and rest of the valve train all the way to the valve seats. Distributor Oil pump & the oil pump drive shaft. Wish I were closer to help.
The sound seems Like its in phase with the valve train. I'm going to do a late night manifold removal and report back tomorrow. You've been a great help
Update.........Good news!? I pulled the oil pan tonight as I felt that would be the least invasive and also, I fear rod and bearing failure more than anything besides block/ bore damage. I am happy to report that none of the rods or mains appeared to be dis colored or have any movement besides thrust which was in spec. The oil seemed nice and clean and I did not find any metallic particles in the pan or filter. The only debris was a couple small specs of RTV. I think I mistook metallic powder for the Isky revlube that I used on the valve stems and rockers. I have not pulled any rod caps or main caps yet. But this at least gives me hope that this might not be so bad. I looked up at the cam from the bottom of the engine and the best I could see was that the cam seemed normal on all the visible lobes and no signs of damage. I took a straight edge and laid it across the poly locks they were almost all at the same height. The only low one on the even side was #2 exhaust and it was maybe only 0.025" low. On the odd cylinders #1 and #7 exhaust valves were just slightly lower and #3 intake slightly higher, again very slight variation. I couldn't see any broken valve springs and everything appears pretty normal. I,m going to try to remove the intake tomorrow night. I'm hoping not to find any cam damage and hope it's something stupid like a loose pcv baffle. I'm crossing my fingers! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
While the pan is off, anything I should check related to the oil pump? If so, what and how? Any possibility that the main bearings could be the culprit? Thanks Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
If it is in phase with the valve train the crank stuff is likely ok as others have said. That said, you could still drop one or two of your rearmost main caps and inspect the bearings, just make sure to re torque them when re-installing if you do so. You could also try using some plasti-gage to see if your bearing to crank clearance is still within acceptable limits since you are already there. I personally would also check the thrust flange on the rear of the crank and make sure that it is in good shape and that there is enough meat on it to keep the crank from walking around (again since you are already there). Use a flashlight to look for any indications of cracked piston/skirt, any abnormal scoring on the cylinder walls, etc. Check to make sure that the bolts holding your flex-plate or flywheel to the crank aren't a smidge too long and knicking the block. Then it is probably time to go up top. Look for bent pushrods by taking them out and rolling them on a flat surface and looking for daylight between the flat surface and bottom of the rod while you roll them. You can pop your rockers off and use a dial gauge and magnetic base on the push rods to look for smoked cam lobes (since you have solid lifters). At that point you can also start doing compression tests and looking for valve issues. If you can borrow or buy one of those LCD bore-scope tools try getting it down in the spark plug hole and see if your pistons have any contact marks in the tops or if you can see anything else abnormal. When you ***embled the engine did you check piston ring to landing clearances? Did you have the rotating ***embly balanced? Was the block align honed? It would have been real helpful to get a video or recording of the sound to help before dis***embly.
Also, pictures never hurt just in case somebody's eagle eyes spot something out of place. also do you have any pictures of initial ***embly? Maybe a piston was put in upside down? They usually have a notch or dot that has to face forward or have valve reliefs cut to favor one side or similar.
Thanks oldsrocket, I will pull the caps and check it out. When I ***embled the engine I had 0.005" thrust but will take a new measurement. I couldn't see the entire piston bores but they seemed to be fine from what I could tell. I'll also check the flywheel bolts, they were brand new ARP for this application but maybe they loosened etc. I will also test the valve train as you outlined above. When I ***embled the engine I checked the ring gaps, PTV clearance. The rotating ***embly was balanced to the gram and the block was line honed as there was evidence of cap walk. I've had a hard time finding an appropriate time to work on it, my daughter' sand dad's birthdays + work= sneaking out late night for a look-see. I'll see if autozone etc has a bore scope to borrow, maybe I'll get the cheapie from harbor freight and check the internals. I'd rather not pull the heads unless necessary. This has been very helpful! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
These are the only pics on my phone. The machinist installed the pistons on the rods. I made sure the notch pointed towards the front and clocked the rings (cast) per the directions on the package.
Did he number the pistons and rods according to their cylinder number? And if so, did you put them in the proper cylinders? While you have the pan off, make sure the beveled side of the crank end of the connecting rods are facing the filleted sides of the crankshaft journal. If the pistons/rods were not put into the right cylinders (an odd piston to even cylinder/vice versa), the bevels may be facing inward which would be wrong. Likewise, if he didn't pay attention while ***embling them they could have as well.
All the rod caps were stamped according to the cylinder and I installed them in order. To my knowledge I did install the rods so they would match up with the journal radius. I will double check this tonight.
The timing light description you provided suggests a issue accruing at 1/2 the rpm of the engine- that means its related or ***ociated somehow to or with the cam in someway. Since you have the pan off, check out the oil pump. Take it off and inspect it. Rotate it, pop the cover off. Pull the distributor too. I remember you said this started shortly after you changed distributors. Check that out real good too.
Just shoved a new Comp Cams 268H in my stock 350 in my 32 because of valve train ticking that I could not get rid of. Tried every valve adjustment technique I could find, (except running), and couldn't get rid of it. It could be felt in idle as well as an engine induced vibration at freeway speeds that felt like a couple of cylinders down a little on power. Dial indicated rocker movement and saw a few that were not moving as much as they should. Removed lifters and cam and couldn't see any obvious problems. Took the cam to local engine guy and he declared it was fine and that I probably had some lifters that were not holding up. The engine had about 4500 miles on it when the problem started. I put another 2K on it before I decided to deal with it. Haven't restarted it yet so keeping my fingers crossed.
Hmmm. Sounds similar to my problem. Did you measure the lobes with a caliper to see if they wore down?
I pulled my oil pump. It felt smooth spinning it. Opening it up it seemed like a little bit of debris went through it. Can't tell if this is bad. t
I checked rod side clearance on all journals: #1&2 0.013 #3&4 0.011 #5&6 0.015 #7&8 0.015 Thrust is 0.007 I pulled the rod caps from #7&8. Looks like some small particles got embedded in the bearings ( not spun), no discoloration. The bearings look a little scratched but I cous not feel them with my fingernail. Crank feels smooth. The wear pattern seems weird to me. Is love to hear your thoughts. I ran out of time and couldn't pull more caps. ATTACH=full]2646910[/ATTACH]
I agree with particles working their way into the rod bearings, the wear should be more uniform and not "streaky" like that. If you have access to the tool (looks like a extra large pipe cutter), cut the oil filter element out of the oil filter ***embly and anything picked up by the oil pump would be in there. If this is a fresh engine, there may have been some left over junk in there from machining everything. RLFFRL
Good reference for bearing wear ****ysis: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwear****ysis.htm RLFFRL
I have the original 327 canister filter. The oil was pretty clean. There's some residue from the moly lube and a few small flecks of metal and a few tiny Rtv or paint ******s. No real metal though. Yes it's a fresh engine.
Id check it with some plastiguage to verify that wear pattern. Do you feel comfortable sneaking the other half of the bearings out for an inspection? &,,, There's defiantly some **** circulating in the oil causing those scratches. Cut your filter and look in there too.
Man, I hope you find the source of your noise. THis is helping us all, and even some of us that will ***emble an engine in the future. This thread has exposed some things to me, that I would have overlooked. I have a phobia of grit and machining media not completely out of the galleries before ***embly. On an off topic race car, we had a remote oil filter located up front with s/s braided hoses. Ran the car one season, and later the new owner wanted to dyno the motor. They pulled the rod and mains off first just to see, and the bearings looked dam near like yours. I believe the media from cutting the braided hoses were not flushed out completely and got caught up in the bearings.
I hear you. I thought I went ape **** scrubbing out the block, using rifle bore cleaners, compressed air etc. it's actually turning out to be a great learning experience except for the fact that it will cost me time and money which I don't have.
I cut open the filter. There was a small amount of fine metallic particles and a few flecks of shiny black stuff. Almost looked like a black oxide coating. Might be hard to see in the pictures.
On the pictures of the bearings, both have wear toward the outsides of the rods. I have seen this before when the crank side rod bevels were ***embled facing inward. Since you said you checked and this isn't the case, I would wonder about 1. the straightness of the crank journals if the crank was turned or 2. the straightness of the rods, or 3. If the rods were R&Red properly and honed if needed. I suppose it would depend on the severity of the wear which really can't be determined by pictures and without feeling them oneself. The picture with the score in the center to me indicates a burr on the oil p***age hole of the crank at that particular rod. If the oil p***ages were chamfered like most are these days it probably wouldn't have occurred. All that said, to me they don't show any signs of causing a knock..... unless the wear patterns to the outside of the rods are actually the result of a slightly bent crankshaft. If you had it balanced, that likely would have been caught, unless the crank took a tumble at the shop or at your place before ***embly. It is virtually impossible to get all the grit out of a sand cast engine block before ***embly. There are millions of little nooks and crannys that **** can get stuck in. That is why the pre-priming of the engine is important. It will cycle at least some of the oil through the filter before start-up. The stuff that is stuck between rotating parts, well that stuff is harder to get out, which is why they also tell you to slowly turn the crank over while priming. That said, you will still have some gunk left over. Regardless, I don't think that those little flecks are the source of your problem unless they came from somewhere else. They will continue to embed in the soft material of the bearings the rest of the life of the engine. As long as they aren't dramatically scoring the crank journal, not that big of a deal. I would pull a couple main caps and see if they have the same wear patterns to the outside. I would also pull the 1&2 rod caps and inspect those bearings. If the outside wear on the bearings is lesser moving toward the front, I would be inclined to think that it might be a bend in the shaft toward the rear. If they look the same then perhaps it is just a product of the shape of the journals. If all seems well, I'd be looking for a mushroomed lifter or worn cam lobe at this point.
On the pump, yeah it looks like some stuff went through. Not uncommon for a new engine. You said your oil pressure was ok and unless there is interference in the pump which would be unlikely, then it's probably not the source of your woes. The pump drive rod looks normal, anybody jamming a dizzy into an engine looking to get the slot and tang to match up and engage would look the same..... Unless there is heavy gouging which can't be determined by the picture.
The Jalopy Journal
