Hey All, I converted my banjo rear to open driveline a year ago. Bought most of the stuff from hot rod works. Its all been fine so far, except last night the front mounting tab for the torque arm detached itself from the bone. Check the pic: This is how they tell you to weld the front of the arm to the bone. I did this, though kind of poorly so most of the mounting tab, and all the weld, came off as one. Guess there was not enough penetration. This time around I know how to weld better, but this still seems a little weak. I'm thinking of using a larger metal mounting tab that BOLTS through the bone. The question I have here is, "Is it safe to drill through the bone at said location?". I'd be using two holes. Will I be removing important material from the bone causing it to be too weak? The holes will probably be 3/8" in diameter, spaced about 1" apart. I know I've seen many drilled bones in the past, you know, for looks. So maybe two 3/8" holes here may not be a big deal. Welding in gussets is another option. Thanks, Mike
Drilling holes there will creat a stress riser, making it weak at that point. besides, properly welded, it will be a stronger connection.
Is there a website for the place where you got your parts? How expensive was it? I can't help on your question, but I would like the info.
I would add another tab. The thing is loaded off center and will try to twist that tab. Add another beside it and bolt thru both. Puts the bolt in double shear and the tabs see no twisting.
www.hotrodworks.com Speedway motors sells the open driveline conversions more cheaply, and they are from Hot Rod Works. Go figure. Anyway, there are some cool banjo rear products up there. Mike
Why not build some kind of clamp that goes around the wishbone? Something similar to a tie-rod clamp. That way the force is distributed across a larger area. It could either be welded or just bolted. I've checked out their torque arm with intentions to copy the design, and that was my plan for the front attatchment. Karl
MIKE, YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION. IF THE WELD BROKE AND ALL THE WELD AND BRACKET CAME OFF AS ONE PIECE, THE PART WAS POORLY WELDED. JUST REDRESS THE TAB, THE RADIUS ROD AND REWELD IT BACK IN POSITION. THIS SHOULD NOT BE DONE WITH A 110 WIRE FEED BECAUSE OF LACK OF PENATRATION IN HEAVIER GAUGE METALS. IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT YOU ARE A PROFICIENT WELDER, HAVE IT DONE BY A FRIEND WHO IS.
Yep. Dick knows what he's talkin' bout. I let a more experienced welder do all my structural welding.....just not experienced enuff and don't have the proper equipment to do it safely.
Alittle on the side of your question maybe, but would it be possible to use a little longer torque arm, and attach it where the bones are attached? To completely eliminate welding\stress on the bones..?
Did you use their mounting kit or do you have split bones? If you've got spilt bones, that is the problem.
Thanks for all the feedback. I am using their front mount kit, the bones are not split. At this point I'm going to either extend the torque arm forward to the mounting point or I'm going to make a wrap around, clamp style connection that will be welded all around. I'll do a followup when I get around to fixing this. Hopefully this weekend. Thanks, Mike
I would dress up the old tab, and reweld it. Then i should ad another tab so the arm is mounted with two tabs, and if one breaks it still will hang on.
Mike, Do as Andy suggests, dual tabs side by side, place the heim joint in a double shear, and increase the strength by about 500%.
So I got my torque arm re-mounted this weekend. Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up choosing function over form on this design since I don't want the torque arm popping off again. The design as suggested by Hot Rod Works is little weak where the torque arm tab welds to the bone. I ended up using square tubing, about 6" long. I cut out one lengthwise side, leaving the piece with only 3 in tact sides. I then tapered the two "dangling" sides in the vise to match the taper of the bone. I also drilled a mounting hole, and welded in a nut so that the heim joint could be mounted in a self threaded style. I like this design in that I am allowed to weld 12" of steel to the bone. The original tab is about 3" long, so I've gained 4x the original welding surface. Pictures speak louder than words. Thanks for all the suggestions. The first photo also shows the wishbone mounting system from Hotrod Works. You need this when removing the torque tube. While I was in that vicinity of the truck, I also cut out the part of the floor that was over the drive line and made a tunnel to keep the drive from scraping when a full load was in the truck. You can kind of see the tunnel above the drive line in both photos. You can also see the scratched drive line. Mike
SP 135 MIG. Maybe a little on the small side, but thought it'd be fine for this app. This weld is actually way better than my previous from a year before, plus there's a lot more surface area welded this time, so it should hold. If not, I'll have to re-work it. Thanks, Mike
I agree - the weld looks COLD - please don't take this as anything but constructive. I would suggest practicing on some scrap and continue until the welds LOOK PERFECT. The SP135 while not any overkill for this job, should be OK - IF (a big IF) you prepped everything right and set the heat up. Top of the list for prepping "right" for a weld is to maek sure everything is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN!! Keep in mind that when you "push" a smaller welder you can help yourself out some by BEVELING all your joints -don't be afraid to use a weaving pattern - and concentrate on the PUDDLE - manipulate it such that you are in control of it!!!!! Cranking up the speed so fast that you are "chasing" the weld is pretty much a sure way to get a nasty - poor weld. NEVER GRIND A WELD to make it look pretty!!!!!! (glad to see you didn't do that!). Another thing you can do when "pushing" a smaller machine is to PREHEAT your parts. It will help prevent the start of the weld from being COLD and can make the rest of the weld a tad better as well. Again I am NOT trying to be critical, but if I were you - I'd think about grinding that out and laying down another bead. First practice on some scrap - when you get the weld to WASH IN on the edges of the puddle - you have the heat right - that's one KEY in MIG welding since a MIG will allow you to put down BEAUTIFUL (but shitty welds) -it's more than just looking good - but looking pretty IS a good start. The NEXT KEY FACTOR is weldment design - your idea with the box tubing is a GREAT one in my opinion. Keep at it!!!!!!
Thanks for the feedback. I knew I'd get some hits on welding quality if I posted, but that's part of posting here on the ol' HAMB. Thick skin helps.
Baron Von Mike - The way I see it - if you KNEW you'd get comments on your welds - then you truely wanted to hear what our thoughts were. That said, PLEASE don't take any of my comments as SHOTS. That was NOT my intention at all. Believe me I can spot a crummy weld mainly because I have put down enough of them myself!!! The MOST IMPORTANT STEP in improving ourselves is recognizing our short comings. In my short time here on the HAMB I have noticed that alot of people fall into two categories - those who want to learn and those who rather ignore the obvious and instead get offended. You surely come across as one who wants to learn. THAT's the same reason why I am here. We all have knowledge and experience in different areas - TRUELY helping each other - isn't about saying how great something looks when our real opinion is different. Surely you will ALWAYS get varying (and sometimes OPPOSING) OPINIONS. The key to dechipering what's sage advice and what's a load of self serving crap is to ask yourself - what's the risk in taking or ignorring any particular person's advice??? I'd rather bruise someone's ego than see them get hurt!
HemiRambler probably covered it but I just wondered whether you welded those mounts on or off the car. Wherever possible I get the part to be welded in the most comfortable and accessible position before I start. Even make sure your torch lead is free and not causing you to fight to maitain the correct angle and speed. I have often regretted not taking the time to do a bit of disassembly or prep work in the interest of "saving time". Practice. Without being a prick, that weld really has little penetration and I would not trust it. Good luck. Pete
EXCELLENT advice from the guys! That IS a poor weld but there are no "born" welders. We all learn by correcting our mistakes and trying to improve a little on every job. Practice on some scraps until your able to get the bead burned in well. Its obvious your into this in a big way...why not take a night course on welding? You'll love it AND you'll pick up a bunch of useful info as you go along. BTW...the nut thats welded into the tubing...is that inside a smaller hole and just welded to prevent it from turning or is it placed into a large hole and relying on the weld to hold it into the tube? If its the latter, reweld that as well or even make a new tube section with a small hole and a welded washer/nut inside to prevent tearout. Congrats on being a "learner" instead of making excuses. If your lucky you'll stay a learner all your life. I'm always learning and love every new challenge! Challenging your capabilities is what its all about!!!
I am sure there are better welders than me on here and I hate to sound like an expert, but the weld does look a little cold. Most amatures tend to weld too slow when wire welding and get what is called a cold lap. That is when you are welding on top of a weld because of moving too slow. The weld can even look good but piece being welded on can be knocked off with a hammer. Welding downhill adds to the problem, but welding uphill can almost eleminate the problem although the uphill weld will not look as good as the downhill one. Welding sheet metal or something where I know penetration will not be a problem I will weld downhill because it is faster and I can get a nice looking weld.
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