HEMI tech- Chevy H2O pump and pulleys?

B***, that's awesome! Can't wait to see what you do with it. Please keep us updated if you start making some crazy stuff for that!

 

I appreciate everyone's input on this subject. Even those of you who inputed your opinions on what I should and shouldn't do even though I didn't ask for it... still respect your opinions. BUT! Really the questions were... SBC pump or BBC pump (thank you B*** for clearing that up) and the main subject was pulleys. I appreciate those who commented about pulleys and I have some great ideas on how I might handle it now and am still open to more suggestions.

I realize no thread on the HAMB goes without tangential comments and opinions, no problem. I never even said I was going to change the pump for sure and already everyone is freaking out. I'm weighing my options and doing some smart research before I do anything. Your comments have brought up a good point however... carrying extra parts (like a cast iron water pump the size of a six pack) on a trip when I have no room at all for anything extra in the car... not sure that's even a realistic option. I would rather save the room for the tools I will need on the road I think. It goes in the books as something to think about for sure.

Funny story Rogue! I actually had a vivid visual of a hillbilly guy with two teeth, a long weed of some kind sticking between his gums, dirty overalls and a straw hat, taring apart a rotting Camaro. Point taken. Now post the info to the shop that rebuilds those pumps in your area! The more Hemi reference materials available on the HAMB, the better!

Thanks everyone! Let's hear more about pulleys and see some pics of what you've done...

 

exactly! what makes a small or big chevy pump any more reliable than a big block chrysler pump that you don't have to play with once it's done. this isn't even a critical replacement item! how many of you drove your small block around with a weeping water pump around for a month plus before you decided to go through the h***el of replacing it.

 

DUDE! Read this...

I don't mean to be a ****, but man I started this to get some information about pulleys and what's done when a water pump is switched... I think my implication was pretty clear that I'm not looking for opinions on rather or not I should change my pump. I already know that I don't really have to, it's just something I'm exploring right now because I plan on puting a lot of time and effort into every component of my car and especially this old Hemi. The wise thing to do is explore all options. SOOOO.... please, please, can we keep this about pulleys and Chevy pumps?? If I don't use this information becuase I stick to the stock pump, someone who DOES change to a BBC pump WILL use the info.

No disrespect. Just trying to stay on topic.

THANKS!

 

Here is a picture of the hotheads setup with BBC pump and single groove pullies.

 

Here's a link to a thread I started so you guys can go crazy about rather or not to change a pump to a Chevy pump or rebuild it...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1325983#post1325983

Back to pulleys and GM pumps...

 

While I don't have specific answers to your questions I will offer a couple more thoughts. Personally I would try and keep the pump speed close to what chevy origionally had. On my converted 392 I recall I used the factory lower crank pulley which as you know is kinda small. This lead me to use a smallish water pump pulley - sorry it was out of the junk box so I don't know the origional application. I do remember that when I made my adapter brackets that I ended up making an additional spacer which made them substantially thicker than the "store bought" ones because I used them to position the pulleys inline. In retrospect I would have doen this first - but I wasn't thinking far enough ahead and was too lazy to make them over
This also let me use the (dare I admit) the alternator that I had origionally rigged up without any other changes. I can shoot a pic or two if you'd like - maybe it will be of some help.

I can't help you decide on SBC or BBC pump - only one I ever used was the BBC - but mine all went on 392's so your's might be different???? I do know this - the BBC one works great.

If you can't locate steel pulley's and are forced ot use the aluminum ones you could always "break" the sharp corners to make them look more like stamped steel.

 

Good info and great idea on the spacers! Some pictures would indeed be helpful I think.

Great idea about the pulleys too! I thought about doing exactly that if I had to. They could be painted still as well. Bead blasting them might make them look cast as well?? HMMM... that might be neat. Or really pulberize them with a more course media for even more of a cast look.

 

Here's the BBC conversion on my Rambler - hard to see, but if you look close you can see the homemade spacers.

 

Cool! Thanks for posting those!

Are those breathers or fillers on the top of the valve covers? Never seen anything like those.

 

Those are "burn down" breathers (spares from my digger) - actually they are meant to be used with hoses that go to a puke tank. In my case they were an odd bolt spacing and none of my other breathers fit so I just used them. I had to machine some aluminum discs - drilled 'em full of holes jammed some foam in there and threaded them into the breather. It was origionally a "late night neccessity" thing and afterwards I ended up liking them - so they stayed.

 

Neat! I like them!

Kerry posted a pic of his pump set-up on the other thread. It's an SBC pump by B&M. Here's a pic:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=198742&d=1150930931

 

I'm not positive but it looks like Kerry and I used the same water pump pulley. Maybe he knows what it is from - my guess is some sbc I parted over the years.

 

That's my guess too. I had a pile of pulleys taken off of all sorts of things. Just grabbed the one I liked, real scientific like. There was more chevy stuff in the pile than anything else. I kind of think it came off of a 72 350 but who knows.

 

That looks like the one I had on my 77 350. It was the longer pump. Wish I had a picture to offer.

 

This one is labeled as a 72 and earlier. So mine must have been a little different:

 

Here's another one labeled 69-70 camaro. 7"


Is 7" going to be too big for this application? Someone mentioned running the smallest one you could find.

 

Thanks for the tip. Mine is scrunched. Who's they?

 

WOW! Another really good tip! Good to know! Can't go wrong with HHH. Never heard a single bad thing about them. First time I've heard anything of PAW. I called them once to ask a question and some dummy kid gave me some B.S. answer that turned out to be wrong after doing a little more research. Anyway, I didn't realize you needed a core for any of those companies pans. That's interesting.

Does PAW sell pulleys? I have their catalog and keep meaning to look. Probably China ****, as you say.

 

HR,
I was thinking about what you said here. Are you saying that the Chevy pump needs to run slower? If so, wouldn't you run a LARGER diameter pulley? Or did I read that wrong? I could be just cornfusing myself also

 

Scooter, what I did for mine was to use a SMALL water pump pulley because I ran a stock hemi (small) crank pulley. I looked at a factory BBC and noticed that the pulley sizes (water pump to crank) appear to be about the same size - (basically running them 1:1) so I figured I'd do the same. As a comparison, the Hemi factiory pulley is rather big on the water pump (effectively SLOWING it down as compared to crank speed) so I ***ume the Hemi pump is possibly more efficient than the BBC pump - but it was all pretty much speculation.

I figure the chevy engineers knew how fast to run that pump and I would pretty much copy what they did. So far so good.

I think what I origionally wrote was confusing because it's all in relation to the size of the crank pulley.

 

AAHHH! I get it! Didn't get the part where the crank pulley was changed. Cool! I understand.

Someone else mentioned running a Chevy crank pulley also. How much modification did it need to bolt it up to the harmonic-B? What did it need for that matter?

 

I replaced the 327 Chevy engine in my T roadster with the 392, and mocked it up with all my old parts just to see if I could re-use anything, and it ALL fit.

On my 392 I'm using a restamped 440 damper with a standard Chevy billet single groove pulley bolted straight to it (no spacers). I have the PAW front timing cover with the BBC water pump adapter "wings" cast right into it. I'm using a Weiand aluminum BBC (short) water pump, and another standard Chevy billet single groove (short) water pump pulley. Also using a Chevy alternator mounted in the stock Mopar location (driver's side high). The belt lines up perfectly.

I don't know about pump rotation speed, etc, but the setup is now 7 years old and has over 60,000 miles on it with no problems. The Hemi runs WAY cooler than the Chevy 327 ever did.

 

Did we ever get an answer on the interchangeability of the 440/392 pumps?...

 

Do you mean the INTERNALS???

They definitely don't interchange without some major work as the 440 pump is a 4 bolt affair while the 392 pump is a 5 bolt affair.

I do recall once seeing a pic of a conversion on Ebay once....the guy made a flat adapter plate that bolted to the 5 bolt hemi pump - then drilled it for the 4 bolt 440 pump. Not sure how the impeller depth was, but it seemed like it was a feasible (though slightly goofy looking) option.


But guys for the purists out there - I have very recently noticed that Ebay has a 392 pumps on there all the time now for right around 70 bucks - I ***ume that someone has started making them again.

What woudl be really cool is if someone would make the main housing out of aluminum - now we'd really be talking.

 

scoot,
i'm running a big block chevy pump on my 341 desoto.
i used a chevy pulley that a friend had laying around. not sure what model it came from. i've had no alignment problems.
dan