HEMI Tech: Oil systems- filters, pumps, pans

Got Kent's int shaft installed & went for a 45 minute drive, all seems good!

 

Unless there's an error in Leo's book, he has 2 pumps, 1324210 & 1630248, as fitting all 51-56 Chryslers. If this is correct then this should work on 54-6 also.

 

linky Guy on another Forum has an interesting question about 259 oil pump components.

 

My understanding is that the pump assembly will have a different part number if the pickup tube changes from a 'floating' to a screw-in style, both of which were used in various applications. The oem parts books does not label them as such.

This guy leaves out alot of important information: how 'low' is "low"? Real numbers are a good place to start; ie. what pressure at what rpm at what temperature...
Just how 'loose' was the pickup tube; ¼ turn or 1¼ turns?
I doubt that the design of the rotor is significant. The 'voids' in the designs are probably similar in volume and even at idle the pump should move plenty of fluid.
Did he check the relief spring and compare to a known quantity? The wrong spring could wreak havoc.
Since the engine is fresh, is he confidant of the abilities of whomever screwed it together?

He is asking folks to guess. On this board he might get flamed.

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My understanding is all 331-354 pumps are swinging pick ups & Leo's shows those 2 part #s as working on all 51-56 engines. That would seem to indicate that your 51-3 cap mod should work through '56. When I posted the 259 pump linky there were no responces, just, like he said, there's a surprising diffrence between the 2. Guess they've decided 1 is HV & one is LV.

 

High volume pumps are usually deeper than stock pumps regardless of the gearrotor configuration.

 

I checked my old factory parts books and it only shows one pump for 1951-1954, # 1324210; one number for 55-56, # 1630248; and one number for 57-58, # 1851434

Maybe Leo left out part of the description or ??? It would be hard to believe that he somehow wrote a technical book and it made it to print without an 'ooops' along the way. Plenty of them in Tex's book...

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Could be. I guess you could compare gaskets for the 2 pumps.

 

Speaking of gaskets. Hot Heads pumps don't come with gaskets. You have to make your own.

 

Another advantage of having Kent make an adaptor plate & int shaft, the oil pumps @ the parts store come with gaskets!

 

but only one gasket. You need another between the mounting adapter and the main bearing cap.

 

Great read so far, but I'm still in need of advice. I have a 1956 Dodge hemi 315 with oil pump #1630272-2. Purchased a rebuild kit (Melling # K-72) and no way is it right. So now I'm thinking about just getting a new pump with new intermediate shaft and starting with new rather than rebuilt. So is this the M-50 pump?
thanks

 

M-50 should be the right one.

 

thanks George.....

 

Here is something that I dont recall as ever being addressed, and it could relate to some of the problems with using a converted LA pump.

These are a couple of pumps that I aquired a while ago. I have no idea who did the conversions, so I will just call them pump 1 and pump 2.

Pump #1 is a high volume pump, made in the U.S.A., with no brand name. The adapter plate on the bottm clears the pump body by about .010, but it clears.

Pump #2 is a Melling M72HV pump. I had to relieve the corner on the adapter piece to make it clear the pump body.

It could be very well true that some of the pump problems we have heard about, especially the binding shaft problems , are due to the plate hitting the pump body and never being noticed. Something to look at.

 

Thanks for sharing that information Tom! (and Gary, and George, and Scott, and Desoto, and.... )

I collected a bunch of parts to try a 340 oil pump conversion myself, but then a brand new Melling M50 landed in my lap for a great price (an Ebay dumb-luck moment). I still think the 340 pump conversion is interesting in spite of the troubles many have had.

David

 

Rather than going with the 340 pump, my 341 uses a 56 354 pump. It bolted right in. I put a 1/16" shim behind the spring for more pressure and am getting 85 psi. Got a bronze gear to protect the cam gear just in case. I was told that the 354 pump has only 3% less flow than the high flow 340 pump. I'm not saying that it does, but that is what I was told by a guy who races Chryslers in an altered. My buddy has a 241 he's putting into a 64 Valiant. He got the adapter and 340 oil pump from Hot Heads. He did have to modify the oil pan for clearance. He bent the oil tube to clear the pan in the sump region, but had to lower the pan in the area of the bolts that hold the pump to the block. Bill

 

...and yet, an M50 would bolt right in sans any adapter...

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The 392 pump was also used on high deck D & D Hemis. The HV pump is supposed to be 3.5% more than the 392, have never seen any comps on the 392 vs 331/354 pump flow rates.

 

Just stumbled across something on Ebay, so naturally I have a silly question

Can any of the experts here explain to me why something like this would have even been created? I understand what it does, but I can't fathom a good reason why. The only thing I can guess is it's used for an "All Out Effort" with "Total Destruction" expected at the end. I know Offenhouser is a solid company, and they wouldn't waste their time tooling up for something that wasn't needed. Here is what I'm talking about:

 

Assuming that's an oil filter bypass, it may not needed for racing where (taking a line from an old "Power Play" catalog talking about using different than OEM bearings) tear downs are "frequent".

 

Certainly an interesting wall hanger... Mopar actually had a similar part on some of the truck engines.
It would eliminate any concerns about a dirty filter...

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Yes, please buy it and hang it on your wall. Like Gary mentioned, some trucks and Industrials had a similiar type of deal. On a drag car, you would not use any type of canister oil filter that might fail. I dont see where it has a thing to do with "total destruction".

 

I was just trying to be funny....

 

A little project I have been working on. Details to follow.

 

Tease.

 

Tom, I keep looking at them but can't figure out what you are doing. It drives me crazy.

I'll second that.

 

...looks like an oil pump cover to me...but I've been wrong before

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It has taken some time to come up with a "universal" cover. You will notice that the bolt pattern is slotted, so it fits both the early hemi pump with the swinging pick-up, and the converted 340 style pump. Of course, the hemi pump is taller than the 340, so it had to be designed so that I could vary the thickness with a single additional machining operation.

 

thats what im talkin about all that other shit is an invitation for trouble