I ran across this drag race video not traditional but still racing. I like the vette owners comment at the end. http://media.putfile.com/FAST-Hemi-vs-Buick-vs-Vette-shootout/e
that's priceless not that the engine choices for the light vette could spank a hemi in a big car like that or anything...
Wayne Nelson's Vette ain't heavy, nor was it cheap to build. Far from it. Dave Dudek's car is heavier I do believe, but it's got a heckuva engine in it. Jim Rodger's Buick wasn't cheap to build by any means either. Where did the "RoadRunner is lighter than the Corvette" comment come from, I have no idea. All three cars were impressive IMO.
Those are the Year One/F.A.S.T. guys. On BIAS PLY tires, they're running 10s at 130plus. That's in normal race trim, not for the Hot Rod Magazine shootout. 10s, on bias ply tires, through cast iron exhaust manifolds, correct intake and carbs, OE Blocks and correct OE heads for the application, full exhaust and air cleaners in place. Oh yeah...they also have to SOUND stock, so no rumpity cams. They can be radical, but if they sound like it, no go. One rumor is that the Hemi guys have cams ground with different firing orders so they sound quieter, but make better power too. This is my favorite class of drag racing--no, it's not cheap, but damn it's cool. Wayne Nelson's Vette and Dudek's old Challenger were the ones to beat last year. There's also an all-aluminum ZL1 clone that's tough. At the end of this past year, Joel Nystrum's new '67 GTX went 10.92@130mph, on G70-14s...its third time at the track. He's still got a lot of sorting to do on it. One of my jobs at Year One is working with these guys to grow the class. They have a 2-day event at Martin, Michigan, and we just signed a deal to have them at the York US 130 nostalgia race this summer, too. Great bunch of guys, and a lot of really, really cool sneaky tech on their cars. Brad
The Buick of Jim Rodgers had a few issues that were NOT F.A.S.T. legal on his car at the race in question, but I'm sure he'll address those. If the firing order made more power it wouldn't be a secret, ALL the F.A.S.T. guys would be running them, because firing orders don't matter to be F.A.S.T. legal. Just another rumour IMO. Wayne's Corvette is the only car that REALLY hooks on the bias ply tires, he's gone a sub 1.60 60 foot, and also the 10.59 run which is the best time. Dave Dudek holds the MPH record I think.... Joel's 10.92 in his GTX is VERY impressive, it was done with a 4 speed.
From what they told me, the Buick isn't a regular FAST competitor, and was a real unknown entity for this shootout. That's why it wasn't exactly FAST legal. But it still put on a great show. Wayne's car does hook like a sunovabitch...all that weight over the rear tures. Hell, the driver practically sits on the axle in a Corvette! Wayne sold his car after the race, and bought a Ford for Pure Stock racing. It's a great class, a lot of fun to watch, and if you like tech, its hard not to learn something when hanging around them. Brad
Your are probably right when you spend less money to go fast with a chevy. But when you want to win you do the hemi. The street hemis were not as fast until they were worked. The 440 6 pacs would beat them on the street. Until you worked them over then no one touched them.
And right there, ladies and gentlemen, is the beauty of FAST! Home acid dipping of brackets and any small sheetmetal items, no jute under the carpet, no guts in the radio or any gauges, wear out the hole saw in the body, remove the inpact bars from the doors, now window lifts in the back glass, clutch and pedal assembly fabricated out of aluminum and make it look stock, Ford truck aluminum master cylinder painted with Cast Blast, thinner axle tubes in the Dana 60 housing, power booster gutted, wiper motor gutted, battery gutted and filled with a small, light-weight race battery, alternator brackets reproduced in aluminum, and the list goes on and on. I even know one guy who primed his car and sanded through to almost nothing, primed it again and sanded, then shot it with color and sanded, and did it again and sanded, so that the paint was almost transparently thin. Pick up a gallon of paint and weigh it: now put two gallons of primer and two of color on a scale--that's weight. This same guy also put all for brake drums on a the lathe and cut them to their limits. A vintage Corvette isn't exactly light, and it's not like you can lighten the thick fiberglass a whole lot, or swiss-cheese the frame. The key to that car is weight transfer, and wider stock tires. The set-up is key in these cars, too: weigh all four wheels and all four tires, and match up the lightest pairs and put them up front. One Nova that used to run it did this: used 302 lower engine mount halves for his big block--that moved the engine back 3/4-inch but it's un-noticeable. This guy also used a 7-inch wide wheel (instead of 6-inch) on his spare tire...because he could put more water in the tire to add weight right over the rear end. As for the engines, the Corvette is using an all aluminium ZL1-style block and heads. Not exactly cheap, even compared to a Hemi. Anything goes inside the engines, so huge roller cams and big displacement are how it's done. A lot of modern "Super Stock" technology goes into these engines. Myself, I'd like to go the other way and build a small block powered '67 Chevy II. One of the lightest cars every built, you can stuff huge cubes in a small block, and wind them out pretty good. If you've watched any of the FAST races, the Hemis almost always come off the line last, and then reel them in on the top end, thanks to the superior breathing of the engine. I've often wondered if a small block Chevy II could get enough of a jump and wind it through the lights enough that the Hemi or other big blocks wouldn't be able to make up the distance. Brad
This is Cloak and Dagger Drag Racing. NObody was running 10.20's on E 70 14 tires in 1968,let alone pulling the front wheels. Acid dip this, cut that. These cars are far from stock. Thats what there called Factory Appearing cars. Fun to watch but far from the truth
I really like the F.A.S.T. series. It's forcing guys to get very creative in order to go get the edge and go faster. Not the same old slap on some better headers and a better intake kind of stuff.
They are allowed to run BIG cubic inches, and 13 to 1 compression+, so they BETTER run faster than "the truth"...? They are allowed exhaust that doesn't necessarily have to "look stock" also, as well as various other deviations. The OUTER appearances should remain stock, and even then the INSIDE can be monkeyed with. F.A.S.T. cars are NOT stock, nor represented as that.
Um...yeah. "The Truth" would be watching the Pure Stock drag racers, which they have on hand at their Martin, Michigan race. Those guys check cam specs, distributor weights, displacement, etc. Blister the quarter in 14 or 15 seconds, they do. FAST is taking it to the next level, but needing to have enough date codes, stampings, and proper wing nuts on the air cleaner that they'd still score a gold or silver certificate in OE judging (As mentioned, the exhaust can be monkeyed with--mandrel bends and cross over pipes, but must run in the stock loction and use stock appearing mufflers). Nobody is saying, or has ever said that the Factory Appearing/Stock Tire cars are concours restored stockers with good chassis set-up. It's a riot to watch a car with cast iron exhaust, an air cleaner, bias ply street tires and no traction bars run times that are knocking on current ETs in Nostalgia Super Stock, with gutted interiors, electric water pumps, open headers, tubs and slicks. More than anything, I want to see a "Jr. Eliminator" round between the FAST winner and the NSS winner at a nostalgia race! Brad
I'm changing the subject here but I have heard this chevy is cheaper thing my whole life. Stock stuff or almost stock stuff is always cheaper but what about a streetable drive it 500 miles a day 550 or 600 horse engine. Yes those horsepower numbers are easily aquireable for a small block chevy but you will have to spend good amounts to do so. Give me a large displacement pump gas engine of any brand any day over a high strung smal block.
I love seeing that HEMI kicking those other dudes. It makes me feel good to be a mopar guy! I read the article on it and it was sating that dave(roadrunner) was making pass after pass after pass, without cooling down.
I think Wayne has said his Corvette weighs 3200 pounds, and Dave's RoadRunner weighs a little over 3500 pounds. I have no idea why you think the RoadRunner weighed less than the Corvette...??? Both are lightened for sure.
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