What would you guys do if you had V8 32 ford rails? Would you install the original k member or after market x member ? And whats the best way to reinstall the x member with rivets, bolts, or weld solid to make 1960s era hot rod look ? flat head or small block chevy ... what do you think? Thanks -john
Go original ford parts any time you possibly can unless you are going to put something in that won't be able to use them. The correct rivets are still available so I'd also use those when possible. Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
Depends on total package...use of '32 center makes sense if you are using early Ford trans and rear, makes no sense for other setups because they require such major hacking and reinforcement after the hacking you would be far better off with something else. Use rivets! If not going with basically early Ford rolling stock...consider selling it all and using the money for fully reinforced aftermarket frame with late type trans mount.
When I was building my 32 pickup I knew I wasn't going to use the flathead so there was no need to hackup a perfectly good K-member,,I drilled out the rivet in both the K-member and front cross member and someone was able to save a hacked up frame with my unused parts. If you are using a flathead by all means use what you have. HRP
Just food for thought. Donut29 decided that he wanted to use and original trans cradle in his Model 40 ch***is and using a different trans did not stop him from doing so. So even if you decide to use a T5 or something the possibility of using old ford parts is still their. I'd much rather you use a old Ford trans though haha!!
I opted for all original ford when I built my frame. I chose not to use the 32 K member because of the issues that need to be solved surrounding the conversion to hydraulic brake pedals and the way the rear of the transmission mounts to the 32 K member. I put a 40 X member in my 32 rails, and I put an F1 crossmember in my Model A rails, and sold the 32 K member.
If you're starting with a fresh set of repop 32 rails, and if you're not using a flatty and matching std trans, then use a custom centre crossmember. Welding is also definitely the way to go, the reason Henry rivetted his frames together was because he designed them to have the suspension pivotting along the ch***is centreline and he wasn't worried about them being a bit floppy - it tears bodies up, and his buisiness was to sell them another car when the first got torn apart. Obviously, if you're using transverse leaf sprung suspension, you'll need stock, or replacements for stock, crossmembers at the front and/or rear. Do we sense a build thread starting here..............?????????
Oh yeah, rivetting was also almost the only technology available - when welding progresed enough to be considered relaiable and lower cost, all manufacturers switched over and rivetting was dead. Setting rivets is an art, kinda like welding - much better to learn welding. Cheers
I just finished replacing rivets in a Model A ch***is that had been dissembled and bolted back together, took two days and really sore hands. I have seen Model A ch***is that had the crossmembers welded in crack. If you are welding a ch***is you need to put in an X member or something that will increase the strength, the three stock crossmembers allow the frame to flex. If you put a 32 or earlier ch***is on a set of saw horses and lift one end you can twist the frame by hand, they have a lot of flex.
I use rivets and install a lot of 1932 K-members. It's easy and quick to do. However an X-member makes for a more rigid frame, hydraulic pedal boxes are cheap and it's easy to fit any transmission you want. Any X-member from 1933-48 can be made to fit. I have posted a couple of build threads on how to do this with K-members and X-members. Ed
Rivets were a choice, not a default...Ford pioneered veru high tech automated electric welding, and fabricated things like Model A gas tanks and banjo housings with welding techniques no one else could duplicate...welding the frame would have been rather easy.
In the 60s a 32 hot rod frame would have rivets wherever a stock crossmember was retained and bolts or welding elsewhere. The real question is not bolts or rivets nor is it flathead or small block Chevy. It is really about having a vision and knowing what it takes to get there. You say you have an original frame but make no mention of the body that you are going to use. To some extent how you build the frame is dependent on what body you will be using. 26/27 T, 28/29 or 30/31 Model A, or 32, they all require some frame fitting and fussing early in the build. Up to the mid 50s a 32 Ford hot rod ch***is would almost always be built with the stock buggy springs and a later Ford flathead transmission. If that is what you want then you should build with the original crossmembers and rivet them together. By the early 60s everything had changed. Overhead valve V8s from all of the Big Three were being used along with their transmissions and rear ends. If that is what you want then you should p*** on the original K-member and use something fabricated for your engine and transmission choice. Boxing the original rails is also something you should consider. There was a lot of cutting and welding in the golden age of hot rodding and much of it was pretty crude. Old Ford frames were stacked up like cord wood and if you screwed one up there was always another. Today, the parts you have a rare and valuable. So you really have to have a plan and work to it. There is a lot of hot rod building talent in the Memphis area and you can learn a lot in a few hours of conversation with one of the local gray beards. I know a couple of them and if you would like to hook up with someone who knows how to set up a ch***is I can make that happen for you. Send me a PM or call me at 870-530-9582.
Sounds like a winner! I strongly suggest you get a copy of the Mike Bishop/Vern Tardel book "How To Build A Traditional Ford Hot Rod." Speedway Motors has it. You want the revised edition published by MotorBooks.
If you go the '32 K member route, my next move would be a P.M. to Elpolacko here on the H.A.M.B. for a pair of his X-member legs to help stiffen things up quite considerably. They look like something Henry would have but into late production in '32! Just to make it easier his company Name is Industrial Ch***is...
Second on El Polacko's braces! One of my friends and I sent away for a pair each...they are beautifully crafted, none of that streetrod welded angle iron look, and were a perfect snap-in fit in the '32 frame we tested. Here's where to start looking: http://www.industrialch***isinc.com/?page_id=88 VERY nice pieces...the two versions are for flat-floor and dropped floor '32's, dropped version should fit all.
John came over to my house on Saturday for a visit, (great guy BTW). John is quite the automotive forensic examiner. He found things on my car that I'd never noticed before. He thinks he has the original rails that came out from under my coupe. (shown in magazine in photo below) Many of the clues add up. I sold my frame to a guy that moved to Franklin, TN which is just south of Nashville. John got them from someone who went to Nashville and brought (a pair of 32 rails) back to Memphis with a story that they came from Memphis. The paint color layers seem to match up. Medium blue, chartreuse, red. (very small chips, but you can make out the colors) Some of the bolt holes, like for the unique headlight stands (still in my possesion) look right. The bobbed front horns and welded-in spreader bar. But... My frame was cut. When I pulled the body off, the rear horns were cut off a few inches behind the rear crossmember and two plates were welded from the back of the body on each side to the rear of the rails. I remember torching them to get the body off. The rails he has are full length in the rear. An in-between owner could have put them back, I guess. He also told me a story he got from a buddy of my car's owner back in the early 50s. (John is well connected to those guys) This is confusing considering the story I got from the owner himself. Anyway, the story goes that they channeled the car themselves 7/5. Meaning 7 inches down (width of the frame) and 5 inches back. I met the owner of my car some years ago and he told me he bought it already chopped and channeled as it came from California back about 1952. Now, we are talking about guys in their 70s and 80s now. The owner of my car p***ed away a few years ago. Perhaps memories are getting a little blurred. Perhaps they did slide the body back but it was already channeled. Perhaps it was another car altogether and the teller of the story just got them mixed up. I don't know. But moving the body back 5" would put the rear wheels obviously out of center of the rear wheel wells. And mine, as you can see in the pic below were centered. I never thought to measure the wheel base before I took it apart. And I wish I'd have taken more pics back then... Another clue is the original rear axle I still have. It has the wishbones welded at the torque tube end. About 8 inches back from the attachment point. (one is broken in the weld) I had just thought they had been broken and (poorly) welded back together. While we were looking at it all I noticed a weld I hadn't paid attention to before mid ways in the torque tube. This was a very good, professional-looking weld. Maybe they lengthened the torque tube, drive shaft and wishbones too so it would center the wheels? This was supposed to be a secret so the other racers wouldn't know why they had an edge on the other racers. The owner of my car worked at a junk yard so, he had access to all kinds of parts. They could have taken two rears and made one longer unit. It's a mystery to me. John, check to see if the rear horns were welded back on and if there are body holes along the lower lip matching the stock ones in the upper lip of the rail. That would point to a channeled body being on them. Anyone now if it's even feasible to move a channeled 3 window back 5 inches on its frame? With the curves, the width of the frame at the center, the kick ups, it just don't add up.
The Jalopy Journal
