everytime i head on over to the cl***ifieds i keep seeing all these "historical do***ents", what are they...(i am guessing people are hawking ***les). there seem to be more and more of these sellers since the cl***ified rules were relaxed...
They are collectable paperwork suitable for frameing and useing for display purposes with your show car.
That's my story, at least. It's cool to see how many are availible from other HAMB'ers considering what a h***le some HAMB'ers (me included) have had trying to get 'collectable paperwork' for their cars the old fashioned way.
I feel it's ok to sell the doc's .....as long as they are priced realistically. If there is gouging goin on then thats another thing. Also Id like some ***urance of a possible use of the do***ents after purchased.....NY "registrations" will not always become a useable do***ent.
I listed some as they have been collected over the years cause our friend has a junk yard.Of course there are only so many you can really use.On older cars where the vin is on the frame its a big helpto those who just wanna get on the road.But if you want your car to have resale value or are restoring a"cl***ic" then they just don't work.It's more to help out than anything else Hell Im sure we all have seen fine cars we would have bought had they had a ***le
With all due respect, choprods, if they're signed, there's no reason they shouldn't be OK. That's the only legal proof of ownership that exists for a New York car. ***les didn't exist prior to 1972 or 1973 and the sate never issued ***les for vehicles older than that. I have (4) cars licensed with current NYS registrations. One of them was registered the first time in my name, using a signed, 1954 registration for a '37 Chevy.
I have also registered my 32 with a signed NY reg, dated 1949..with no questions or problems. I know of a few guy's who build cars, 99% early fords and all steel, and thats how they register them as well.. As long as the do***ent (reg) hasn't been altered and it's been signed in the "transfer" area you *normally* won't have a problem... That's NOT to say that someone at some point will not cause you grief of course..that's thier job I have another '32 NY registration for my 5 window, dated and signed in 1951..that's how that one will be registered.
But New York ***les are worthless in MN, state wont take them and from some southern states, and just try ***ling a Motorcycle.....
Not doubting you, but if that's the case, then how could anyone in NY sell a legaly owned, pre-'73 vehicle outside NY ???? I've sold a few out-of-state (admittedly, not to MN) and the new owners never had any problems. I'm sure other New Yawkers have also transferred ownership of their cars out of state.
registering my T was easy "it was a family transfered gift" (that is why it had no ***le) CHP inspected it, and invited me to thier car show. Went to DMV, they gave me ****..."i said but the CHP..." they said here is your new ***le and registration sir". How would i go about using an historical do***ent then? as an example i want to build a model A modified, with a 383 golden lion ('59 chrysler engine), with a model T body on it. How would a historical do***ent work. I take it i would purchase a historical do***ent for a model A scoot down to the DMV and say that i want to register my 30 model A sedan? (***uming that is the description on the historical do***ent) thanks
What do you consider realistic price???? You have no ***le for your car and you need one. Car is useless without a ***le, worth market value with. Then the ***le is worth exactly what your car is worth, right? To you anyway. Or it is worth the difference in price between the value of your car with and without a ***le. We could be taking thousands. You want ***urance that it is usable. Okay, sure I will do that, no problem, YEAH RIGHT. Somebody sells you a ***le as a historical do***ent ONLY, and it is ILLEGAL to SWAP VIN NUMBERS ON ANY CAR, and you want them to back your stupid ***? I can just picture you walking up to the DMV counter and tell them your using a ***le from a car that was junked years ago and you made your own vin tag and putting it on a car that was probably stolen out of some farmers field ten years eariler. Yep, your right, I should back you when they arrest you for VIN fraud and theft. Yep, I sell a historical do***ent for $50 and then should help pay the hundreds of dollars in fines when you get caught. Yep, going to do that on every piece of paper I ever sell, sure will. Stupid is as stupid does and there is a lot of stupid out there. If you choose to try to ***le a car with a different ***le, that is YOUR problem. It is easy to do, but VERY illegal.
I purchased my '47 Chevy convert from NY and had no trouble at all registering the car here in Michigan with just the transferable registration.
with the Boyd raid bringing to light unscrupulous ***le issues, there is no way I would use a ***le service The Attorney General's Office believes as many as 70,000 vehicles have been illegally registered in California through these scam operations. The California Department of Motor Vehicles is in the process of canceling registrations that involve do***ents obtained from ***les Unlimited. (***les Unlimited is believed to have provided false do***ents to Californians that cost the state more than $1 million in tax revenues and license fees over the past two years, and as much as $14 million since 1975, when the company began operating.) The Attorney General's Office also has notified law enforcement officials in more than 20 counties regarding residents who ***led their cars through the company for possible prosecution." for me, no ***le means no purchase, and if I'm building a car it has to start with an original. I learned the hard way with my "special construction"
so what was the "Boyd Raid"? or was that the article you just posted...i have always felt that buying a used ***le was pretty questionable. Especially as who knows what the hell the history behind it was. Imagine if the ***le was for a car that was reported stolen...you be ****ed!!! does anyone have any stories that showed success with utilizing this service?
i'd rather buy a used ***le for a car that was crushed 30 years ago than let a sweet car go to waste just because some super***** at the DMV doesn't want to help you out. may not be legal, but i don't see how it is really hurting anything, the new state gets sales tax and the ***ling fees etc, the old state wasn't getting anything for the dead piece of paper anyway.
Well,You are stil living in NY -right? I bought one for 75 once a few years back and it was not good enough tpo suit Missouri's DMV....Mine was dated 1948- he didnt tell me that part......
Would you please clarify which side of the issue you are supporting? It may be readily apparrent to you -but I am really not sure.....
Personally I think persons offering historical do***ents render a service to the car hobby, there are other ways to obtain a ***le for example: court ordered ***les, you are challenging the state to prove that you don't have the right to license a vehicle, these court ordered ***les usually cost $250.00 to .500.00 bucks. so I think anything under $200.00 bucks to get a car on the road is a bargain. Anyone that has a problem with the do***ents I sell can be ***ured they will get their money back. My .02 worth
Gee, I know where there is a ***le and bill of sale for a 37 dodge truck along with vin plate and picture in the junk yard where it was bought, if you know of any body interested. The truck is completely trashed.
There are many do***ents listed on HRA. Just click my sig and do a search for "car ***le" or the like. Many will see the service is good for the hobby, others will frown. I agree with BilljHarris 100% on this issue.
I have been on both sides of the do***ent transaction many times so I am not opposed to selling them- ONLY that they are good to go as BillJ says..... I have also had good luck at www.its-***les.com many times too[125 dollars]. its neat as you put in the "numbers" and the horsepower- etc etc.....it uses a legal loophole in NewHampshire or Vermont law that enables them to ***le it to "resell" back to you.
I am 99% FOR using old ***les and tags. Save as much old metal as you can....IF the vehicle you are registering is not stolen and the situation is not funny. I think that every attempt should be made to get the right ***le to match the actual vin first before anything else. Here in WI, it is a piece of cake to obtain a ***le for an old car providing you can prove that it is legit. I am doing it on a 65 Comet right now. Call the county police, have them sign the VIN verifications, send it in with a short letter, any history of the car and a bill of sale, ****, new ***le in the mail. There are other ways also, mechanic's and storage leins, ***le services, etc. Technically, if use use a ***le from a junkyard crushed 40 years ago, that is illegal. Or if you are putting the vehicle back on the road from a junkyard hulk, that is illegal also. They have the laws to protect consumers from buying stolen and not safe for the road(salvage) vehicles. Does not really pertain to a 1957 Chevy as it would have been unsafe from the factory anyway , but still illegal none the less.
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