As many of you probably know the AACA has discussed a class for historically significant hotrods. This class would be for cars built at least 25 years ago, either built by a famous builder, been in a movie, magazine, etc., and is still the way it was built as a custom or hotrod, NOT A RACE CAR. A friend and I had a friendly discussion today about this. He seems to feel there aren't that many of these cars that still exist. I think there are several hundred if not thousands. I need help making a list I can show him. My favorites would be no.1 Norm Grabowski's Kookie T, no.2 Hirohata Merc., the McMullen '32 roadster, No.4 Ala Kart, no.5 the Happy Days truck, no.6 Milner's coupe, and no.7 El Matador. How about some more?
Try any car in Bruce Myers's collection. Pierson Bros. coupe, So Cal belly tank, Tom Mack(sp?) roadster, etc. DW
Wasn't the Grabowski "Kookie T" heavily altered in appearance and later hidden away from view by the next owner or have things loosened up a little in that respect? Still...it would need full restoration to become the Kookie T again... I wonder what it does look like now anyway! Sure was the cats ass when Norm had it! I liked the earliest versions myself.
The Eddy Dye roadster, Flint roadster, Frank Mack Track Roadster, Doane Spencer Roadster, Neal East Coupe, Bob McGee/Dick Scritchfield Roadster, Doyel Grammel's 3 Window, the Emporer, Miss Elegence, The Bakan 3 window, The Bob McCoy 40 sedan, The Louie Schell Roadster ( undergoing restoration ) , Necamp Roadster, Blackies Roadster, The Joe Nitti roadster, Romango merc.,Tommy Ivo's T, California Kid, Jakes " Screaming yellow" zonker"..................... The list is so Large it stagers the mind. there are hundreds of cars for this list.
Giovanine & Spurgin '25 Chev roadster, 1948 SCTA points winner in A roadster class, is under restoration but not sure if it is being restored to its March '49 Hot Rod cover version or the October '56 Hot Rod feature version, I hope it is the '49 version Don Williams '32 5w Bill Niekamp's A roadster Tommy Ivo's T Jack Thompson's '27 track T Red Hynes '23 T touring
25 years is almost old enough to include the coolest TV mild custom ever...the General Lee. It's got custom paint, minor body mods, hopped up motor, non-stock interior pieces, everything a good TV custom needs
The Bluesmobile too...Wouldn't you just love to see that beat to shit '74 Dodge driving through the crowd at a Concourse de'elegance show? People would shit...
Dan Warner, they already recognise race cars, great class, has to be finished as it would have been at some point of it' race career. In other words, not the year of build but one specific year it raced, say the year it was a champion, etc. Hackerbill, I thought I saw a recent picture of Norm sitting in the T, maybe I'm wrong. Bugman, I like your thinkin' on the General. Maybe when 37kid gets home from the flea market he will chime in here.Thanks.
I love this car to, but it is a (dead-on) "Re-Creation" of the Stu Hilborn car. no one has been able to track down the remains of the original tho there has been extensave efforts. There was a guy in Fla. that seemed to think he had found some pieces of it.
Reading about it several years ago in some mag it was said a guy by the name of Bill Street had bought it from Norm and redid it into a full-on show car. I believe he painted it white pearl or something and actually used DUAL rear wheels and tires out back!!! Typical 60's excess. At the time the article was written, Mr Street had intentions of a full restoration...but to HIS early 60's design...not the famous "Kookie T" version! There are several clones going around though... Sure would be nice to see the original hit the street again though.
Bill Street used to go by the name of Jim Skonzakes, and also owned (still does, I think) the Golden Sahara. Both cars are supposed to be in Dayton, Ohio, and Mr. Street has no interest in letting anyone see them. He transformed the Kookie car in '60 or '61 IIRC. I've got a picture of it in a magazine somewhere - if I find it I'll post it. Mutt
STOP EVERYTHING!I was envolved with this AACA deal the first time around, and I've been envolved with the Race Car Class forever. If you have a Hot Rod that you can prove raced it would fit in on AACA show field once you have it "Certified". The "Historical Hot Rod" class was an idea that failed for lack of a discription of what one was. To me personaly it is a Hot Rod built "In or before 1965", look at the list of cars above and except for TV & movie cars just about all are Pre '65 builds. Pick out the above mentioned Hot Rods that NEVER raced and the list is very short.
37 Kid's got a good point. Lots of hot rods were raced, although not always exclusivly. I guess they don't want to count strictly race cars. Also, 25 years should probably be made into a more riged date, like say, pre 1970. I think the historically significant part is also holding it back. How about any pre 70 build that's still the way it was when it was built. That would be interesting! We've seen the historical cars in books and mags all the time. How about a last hara for the everyman's hotrod?
I'll probably say this wrong but...why do we need the AACA anyway? What? are we trying to stick it in their face after all these years? We know what cars are historically significant. I sure as hell don't want the people that threw rocks at me suddenly determine what is important in a field that they shunned, ignored and belittled for years. We couldn't get 25 people on the HAMB to agree what is significant or not. I sure as hell don't want the haters to decide for me and my hobby. I was around over 25 years ago and you did not tell that Hershey vendor (who had to be a member to sell there) that his fender was going on a hot rod Ford or he would refuse to sell it to you at any price. I know a lot of them have died off and things are different today...now they want us all of a sudden? or are they reluctantly [font="]acquiescing to the rich hot rodders?[/font] Am I bitter??? maybe but we have our own organizations that are better judges of our history than the AACA. Let them have pebble beach. Would a blue jeaned hot rodder from the 50's feel comfortable there? Yeah right! I'd much rather have the NHRA determine that than the AACA.
Yes 37KID has a good point, but he also knows how I like to pick at this scab. After all that's how we found the HAMB. Not to argue, but I don't think a car with a shoepolish number on it makes it a race car, like the '32 2 years ago at Hershey. Just about everyone can produce a time slip from the local dragstrip. That doesn't make a dragcar out of it. The 22jr. is another example, in street trim it would be in this class, fenderless it's a racecar. Automotive Stud, their mentality is that these cars had to be built by somone important to be important enough to look at.
I couldn't care less about recognition by the AACA, but compiling the list is fun anyway. I think Harms Way nailed it -- nearly every significant hot rod I could think of, he named. Two cars that I would add to it would be Don Ferreira's roadster (the inspiration for AV8's car and book) and Wally Parks' A roadster, just re-created for the NHRA museum. Unfortunately neither exists in its original condition; Ferreira's was largely spoiled by its next owner when it was only a couple of years old. From Harms Way's selections, I would elevate the Doane Spencer car to the very top of the list. A personal favorite that I have never heard spoken about in recent years was Bob McNeil's Deuce 3W in the July '54 issue of R&C. Built by Chuck Porter, it was chopped, black, with WWW, white top insert and running boards. Despite the corny article and a couple of stance errors (wheels not centered in fenders) it was a perfect example of mid-'50s style. If anybody has the R&C and a scanner, I'd love to see it posted. I'd also love to know what became of the car.
Doug, If there was a '32 on the show field with a shoe polish number you can bet your ratmobile it was a real race car. This AACA stuff will bore people to death but the race car class is the only class that requires the owner to prove that the car is in fact what he says it is. I think Tommy is correct, not too many hot rodders want to show in AACA. If they did the people with the Pebble Beach Hot Rods would have been in Hershey years ago.
OK Build a car today......race it! Do something! Then put it away..... in 25 years you'll have a winner!!!!!!! BALLS!!!!!!
Ok, great example of a car we all know about that was in a TV movie set in the late 1950's or early '60s. I'd like to see 1965 used as the cutoff year for "Historic Hot Rods" Muscle cars came out about then and killed Hot Rods, Viet Nam and other social changes make this a good end of an era. What parts were available over the counter in 1965? Street Rodding caused all the massproduction of parts and the look of the cars changed as well. Pete Chapouris started with an old chopped dry lakes of Bonneville car and built a great car that the movie and his business made famous. Great car but not exactly the same as an early '50's HOT ROD Cover car with Rex Barnette cutaway.
There in lies the rub. What is the proper criteria. If in fact it is pre 1965 hot rods, do you eliminate milners coupe etc. Very interesting debate 37 Kid. I agree with you, however with the lack of exposure compatively speaking to post 1970 it is hard to quantify.
Milners coupe got lucky in my opionion, a so so hot rod bought for use in a movie that got REAL lucky and launched the careers of everyone envolved in it. Park it along side the July 1961 HOT ROD cover car, the future Beach Boys Coupe and judge it on workmanship and overall design.
I agree 37 Kid. But that is my point. What constitutes "historically significant". I love the Beach Boys coupe but in general which car is better known. Does being more recognizable make it more historically significant. Not sure.
I'm with ya' brother. I agree the definition I had understood was too lame. While the Milner coupe would draw a bigger crowd of younger people I don't think it holds a candle to the Beach Boys coupe. The '32 I referanced was beautiful and I'm sure it qualified as a race car technically, but it wasn't the Pierson coupe either.
Good to see we are looking at this topic in the same light. Both coupes are equal in fame more or less, but light years apart in fit and finish. Judging them would be the same as an Indy 500 car and a Saturday night modified stock car.
The Jalopy Journal
