HO-HO-HO December monthly BANGER meeting

do you have a copy of "Legion Ascot Speedway"?

well worth your time. we could go on for ages with this, but since I am in a current state of disgust with you it will have to wait.

 

Nope,...have to get a copy! BUT,...I do have an old scrapbook dealing with newspaper clippings from legion ascot races and some orig. photos in that scrapbook!

HAAAA!

 

decided to drop this, seems kinda pointless after all. Will go back to posting pictures of bearded midgets, lesbians on tricycles, and polished tappet covers.

 

Why?

I've been waiting all week to see what you come back with.

 

so it will take a while and I am too lazy to type it all out right now, so will start out at the beginning...sorta. Going to have more fun stuffing this in the monthly banger threads anyways.

Having done this a few times, I have learned my leason about not having predefined parameters and constantly changing direction on a build: it never gets done. Have a plan and stick to it (with in reason).

This is going to be a multi part build. First is going to be get it running with some "basic" chassis and suspension mods. Nothing fancy in the engine for the first iteration, distributer, this slick little period Master carb set up I have, aluminum pistions, auxillery oiler (no pressure), headers, maybe a cam, stock rear end with 3:1 and a body of some sort. Time frame: will be at the Lucky Bastards/Hot Rod Revolution this fall.

Next will come a ruckstell, nice wire wheels, and then I will build the engine. Time frame...a couple of years.

I think the best way to build a anything is from the back forward. Gears. Model T's are very simple 2 speeds: slow and other. (as noted eventually it will have a ruckstell so I will show how used that in planning the build)

How fast do you really want to go? is acceleration and climbing the goal, general over the road drive ability, or is full chat WOT balls to the wall the goal. Depending on the awsner to that question...

This is going to be a general over the road car, but geared high, as I can build a motor that will get me over most anything with in reason. My last car was good for basically 80 mph and would run 65-70 which is a good speed for moseying down the road. Here is the break down for 2 gear sets.

Now this is a slight generalization, but basically a 30 x 3 1/2" tires attached to a Ruckstell with 3:1 will net you 3:1 in direct and apprx 3.63:1 in under driver, which happens to be the stock rear end ratio a T. (A model T has no reduction when in direct, the gearing reduction is through the rear axle)

how fast to go (I am showing final drive only, not going to worry about low band, since the operating RPM ranges are the same)...

3:63 @ 20 mph = 813 rpm
3:1 @ 20 mph = 672 rpm

3:63 @ 35 mph = 1423 rpm
3:1 @ 35mph = 1176 rpm

3:63 @ 50 mph = 2033 rpm
3:1 @ 50 mph = 1680 rpm

3:63 @ 65 mph = 2643 rpm
3:1 @ 65 mph = 2184 rpm

3:63 @ 80 mph = 3252 rpm
3:1 @ 80 mph = 2688 rpm

(will get into the semantics of breaking 3k RPM with a T later, but figured I would run out to the ton)

3:63 @ 100 mph = 4066rpm
3:1 @ 100 mph = 3360rpm

Now we have our operating parameters from which everything else will be extrapolated from during the pre-planning stage.

From this information I can determine what type of cam I will spec and now can begin to calculate everything else.

Part 1 completed.

 

and here it is...my father built it when he was about 10 in '59 (would that make it a genuine 50's hotrod?), time for iteration number 2 nothing fancy at all, except some 3:1's in the rear end, hasn't moved in 25 years. Anyone want some '13 front fenders and splash aprons?

 

Oil pump mods
Thanks to Just plain Bill for the advice on how modify the oil pump for pressure.
This is what I did:
Dissemble the oil pump
Drill the oil passage above the gears 3/8.
Drill the oil passage across to the shaft 3/8 then weld up the outside hole again.
The shaft can also be turned down by about 1/8 between the bushs, mine had been done in the past.
braze up the notches at the top of the pump the machine them back to the pump dia.
Machine a grove for an oring in the top of the pump.
Knock the locating pin out and machine an oring grove in the lower pump housing, put the pin back in.
Grind or machine the inlet port on the lower pump body, don't make the port wider just taller, I left about 1/8 of a lip.
You need some oil to pass the top oring Bill said to dill 2 by 1/16 hole from the top of the body behind the oring into the stepped area, I could only manage 1 so I filed a grove in the top bush as well, to pass some oil.
Put the pump back together.
I got about 30psi at idle with a cold motor.

Brendan

 

Pump mod pics
Brendan

 

Here is a small movie showing the engine running and oil pressure with the modified pump, its hard to see but the guage is in kpa it gets up to 300 kpa or 45 psi


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdMJroytSzI

Brendan

 

Thanks for sharing. Is this a stock engine or does it have bearing inserts? Is the crank drilled?
.

 

Stock motor so far, crank not drilled (yet). I intend to get it on the road then have a good fiddle with it. Fabricate some headers and a twin carb setup. I have a spare stock head and I was going to modify it to raise the compression but I am not sure its possible to machine much off. I am thinking about maching it on an angle to reduce the chamber size then redrill all the studs and dizzy hole. It will probabally finish up a door stop.
Regards
Brendan

 

Loks like fun, is that an AR engine? 5 bearing cam?
.

 

Yep. AR 5 brearing, I get the feeling thats not a bad thing.
I suffer from big plans small budget.
Brendan

 

im trying to build a "pre war" hot rod . any help & or parts would be greatly appreciated . i have many parts to trade for "pre war" parts .... thank you .. steve

 

Coaltown,
The S O S S mag did a 3 part series of articles on Rajo Jack starting with V 8 # 4. Don't know if you have read them yet.

 

hi Steve dont know what kind of car u want to build but living in your part of the world i would start with a trip to sacramento vintage ford for a look at what they have and a copy of their catalogs after studying these i would start with a sketch on paper if possible to scale of what you want height ,body type, steering ect it is also good to look at sites like west coast speedsters those speedster bodies are cheap and easy to build and are a lot of fun they go well with even a stock engine [power to weight ratio and something to modify as time and money permits]Remember a good banger project is never finished and there are no rules enjoy
regards rusty New Zealand

 

nice work Brendan lucky to have that good AR motor i feel that in time they may be better than even a B motor you can always add a counterbalanced crank myself I am trying to find an external old time oil pump setup probably set up off the front of the crank speedway style any one got one spare?

 

Nice to see u have done your homework how about a chev 4 head as well

 

Hey Coaltown,

You may want to check out AARA:

http://www.antiqueautoracing.com/

Will Kimble

 

Russ tee,

Have you thought about building an external oil pump?
I bought an oil pump set up for a T engine that I'm building that drives off of the generator side drive ( black unit in photos below). The pump is a later model oil pump driven off of the cam gear at crank speed. <O
The gray unit in the pictures is a governor used on model A engines to run the carb on stationary applications. With a little adaptation, you could use the drive from the governor to spin an oil pump. I got the governor for $10 at a swap meet. Late model oil pumps are cheep too.<O

 

thanks Crazydaddyo i have a sidedrive to run the mag that will go with my rutherford head [No space for a dizzy on this one] i thought of trying to adapt something but would like to find something period interesting what turns up i saw an English supercharger the other day made for the model a i suspect for trucks not mine yet

 

This is what your looking for:

 

yikes thats the one the heads slightly different but the pump is exactly what i had in mind side drive is the same but i will be driving my mag from it this is amazing as i have tried so long to get information on these heads

 

my head has only two hold downs on the valve covers i have two windfields two run on the intake will use an adapter and aftermarket alloy water pump i picked up from sac ford while i was there i would love to get one of Dan Prices repro Rutherford sumps but they are a bit pricey by the time i ship to New Zealand will be fitted to my counterballanced b motor in my t roadster pickup model a chassis you have just blown me away of course we dont see these things out here

 

My Dad is putting this engine in his 31 Model A pick up. He looked at Dan Prices pan and found that there wasn't enough clearence at the front of the pan for the drag link. Stock pans angle back from the block and Dan's pan goes straight down.

He wants to run 2 97's and is looking for a manifold for it like the one in the picture
below. This one is addapted to 4 bolt carb. This is a Gemsa head, but the manifold looks the same.

 

Looking for a source for the adapter plate to mount a T-5 to an AA bell housing. at the Kalamazoo Rod Show found a complete kit with the Pedal shaft mounting to the side of the adapter. For the life of me can not recall their name or find the flier.

 

Steve Serr sells a kit.
http://www.millerhi-speedheads.com/transadapter.htm