Situation: 21 y.o. son with true mechanical ability loves working on hot rods but doesn't want to become a new car mechanic because new cars bore him (computers, FWD, remove/replace mentality) Admires those who can fabricate, weld, bend, machine metal. Not bad at TIG and MIG. Lousy at "book learning" but great with the hands. Deal breaker: Can't stand for long periods or wear a heavy tool belt due to rods and pins in his back from motorcycle accident. SO: -- What kind of career would you suggest? Apologies if this is considered off topic, but this kid is truly "one of us" and if you want only gold chainers "building" cars in the future, we need to find places people like him can make a living. Thanks in advance from a frustrated father!
I also would be interested in this topic Im 18 and need to find a job that would follow about the same discription.
Just depends on if he wants to be poor all his life or be financially stable and have a good future later in life. Really, the chances of making a better than average income doing this work is very, very, slim. I'm talking about if you want a good home, a retirement, health plan, etc. etc. I did the same thing, Hated book learning; went Air Force (which any able bodied young American male should do first, serve his country, IMO). Got out went to school to get pilots license and A&P credentials; with just an associates degree. Bad mistake. Book learning is a matter of self dicipline, plan and simple. Learn to read and study and for God's sake be able to write intellegently. Go make a crap load of money and then REALLY be able to pursue your hobby the way you want. I spent 30 years in aerospace; made a good living, had lottsa toys. But finally pulled my head out, really applied my knowledge and finally, in my 50's, have an executive job where I'm making the kind of money where I can REALLY do and get the things I've always wanted. If you have any sway with your kid at all, make him learn to study, and get the best education he can. This should be a no-brainer considering the additional problem with his back! I know this probably won't be the most popular answer with a good number of people on this board, so let the haters begin shreeking about being true to yourself, blah, blah. Go in peace and be broke, my friends! Your wives and family will enjoy suffering with you. A couple of things I've learned which changed my life... You can't be a good leader with out first being a good follower. Don't return evil for evil. Never give anything but your absolute best, no matter the circumstances.
education, education, education = degree, degree or degree...the money is where the smarts are...not in pulling wrenches... Chip Foose went to art school, got a degree and got damn good at it...most any "self-made" man has higher education as his first priority...that's why you learn when you are young... Storm King is correct...it's all self-discipline...if you can master that...you can master anything, including making butt loads of money...which you'll need to master this hobby. Me...??? I finally went back to school when I was 59...learning is tuff at that age...but I learned fictional writing...at this point in my life, I've got a third book coming out in '08...and two more written and in the rewriting stage...take some advice...don't wait til your '59 to learn. R-
VERY WELL SAID! Storm King pretty much nailed it. Learning, thats where it is. I was a dumb arse petrol head, hated school and didn't play the game. Repeated a year and realised I was going no where so I buckled down. Passed well and (wasted?) it all by joining the Army, became a SF Medic and still wanted to learn more. I have now completed my third degree (Paramedical Science, Aviation Medicine, Psychology) and am beginning to earn well. Why the fuck did I bore you all with that?? "cause I'm proud as fuck of it and I could. Honestly, If I could do that anyone can. Education is getting more and more important, the days of making it as a high school dropout are fast receding. Send him to Tafe (Or the US equivalent) to get that all important sheet of paper with a qualification on it. With a back full of steel his education is imperative, even a simple trade will cause him a life of pain and poverty. If you cant work, you cant earn. I guess I had some discipline, or had it beaten into me a rifle point? Hard work, learn to love it.
If I may add something here which has been a help to me; most of us are very good at certain things. Myself included. I can engineer and build composite parts, with carbon fiber being my specialty; better than anyone I've seen. But I suck at the 'down' side of business, the paperwork and accounting side of things. Then someone very wise told be that we each have a part of whatever we do in business that we really hate, and don't want to spend any time doing, or even thinking about. Listen carefully because this can set you free: The measure of your success will be detirmined by how well you master the tendancy to ignore what you don't like/do poorly. It may be a different thing for each of us, for your son it's book learning. His success or failure will be detirmened by how well he masters that deficiency.
Education first, passion to follow. As a parent of three, here is my recommendantion. If he is good with his hands, and willing and able to work. Tech School maybe an option, welding (big demand), body work. Get the baiscs, then perhaps go to a more specific program , auto restoration.
I mostly agree with Storm king...but I can see where Dave is comming from...at 21 it's hard to tell a young man anything... Noland, Get yourself some education. If not regular college, go to any of the Tech programs. Wyo-Tech has an advanced Hot/Streetrod program that is pretty good. And I now all the excuses that you are thinking. All of them are eaisly overcome, IF YOU WANT TO.......It's either 3-4 years of something you don't like, or it'll be 40 years of a life of regret..... I teach Auto Body at My local High School. I'm the 2nd & 3rd Advanced instructor. The students that the Counslers "stick" in auto body are the kids that are not going to any kind of post-secondary education. I have a lot of students that are "not book learners". But I require them to do the classroom work. And alot of them do anything they can to get out of it. I'm continually telling them that in todays world if they want to have the things that make life comffy, they need to put just a little of their extra time in to studying. Just this year I've had 4 students make a 180, and commit to getting more education in the Automotive area.
http://www.hotrodinstitute.com/ Wyotech would be another one. There is the one in Wyoming ind one in PA. I can't vouch for either of these I just know about them. I went to school and got an associates in Criminal Justice. I then got hired at GM shortly after graduating. 10 years and 4 plants later I am looking to go back to school, mainly due to the fact that I do not want to move again and there will probibly not be anywhere else for me to go. I really do not care for my job but it pays good. This time I am looking for something I am actually going to like doing but I know it will pay less. So one thing I am trying to say is take a little time to see what you want to do and make sure you will enjoy it.
well someone has to post a second opinion. education and school are two different things, only about 20% of people with degrees work in the same field. there must be a passion to excel at anything you do. I certainly agree that people that can't complete school will probably fail to some level in life. unless they find their Passion. "if you can dream it you can achieve it" without the dreams and passion to follow thru with it. no amount of schools will help. my son didn't graduate his senior year, but he followed thru with his credits and got a diploma in six months. joined the Navy and was a C.B. came out and bounced around at the McDonalds, Taco Bell, level till he found his passion, working with his hands out of his Gararge, he's Grossing over $300,000 a year and just got a contractors license and is starting a second business on top of his on going first. no college just found his passion.
I do believe Bear Metal Customs in SoCal is hiring. He could try apprenticing there so he could personally see how demanding anything to do with automotive is on ones back. After that he might be willing to go back to school. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/member.php?u=3101
You guys are all forgetting the "can't stand for long periods of time" caviat. He wants to do this work, but may be physically unable. That may get better with time, but probably will get worse. To me this says he is setting his hopes on a place that can only lead to failure. 'I don't/can't won't learn from books, and want to be a big time fabricator and make lots of cools stuff; but might not be physically able'. So if you aren't successful, you already have a reason to cast blame on the condition, not the person. noname, my first run at my own business did better than that in gross income. My banker loved me, kept lending me money because for every years I was in business, I more than doubled gross revenues. I also was pouring money into an endless pit, and never made enough in the first four years to pay myslef or my brother one nickel in salary. Gross doesn't mean a thing; bottom line is everything.
Noname, no one doubts you its just that your son is a VERY rare animal indeed. You do have a point in the passion but one would have to be a fool to start ones education in something that holds little interest to them.
I really don't know what to tell you Dave....seems that several of my friends who wrench on cars are giving up and getting defense contractor jobs on Ft Huachuca working with UAVs. Working on old cars is a tough job, it can be rewarding, but more often it's just a lot of work for not much money. There are some guys who have a knack for designing/building cars that other people will pay big bucks for, but they seem to be few and far between. Since he has an interest in working with metal, I guess the first step would be to look around at what jobs there are, where he would be willing to live. My guess is that his physical problems will limit him to working on small, more high tech stuff, so he might want to look into companies that make things like that. The demand for bolt-on hot rod parts is really good, maybe there's a place that makes things like this that is looking for help? Good luck, it's a tough choice, and I wish I could offer more help. My kids are pretty good at the book learning stuff, so they like playing around with computers instead of learning useful skills like welding.
If he can't stand for long periods then he's pretty basically shit out of luck in the automotive industry. Blue collar work is pretty much out of the question for him, trust me this is the voice of experience here. You might suggest that he learns to knuckle down and study then go into design work. He'll still be able to do the hobby hot rod thing and might even make enough cash working to support his habit.
Storm King and StudeDude got it right. Read this: http://www.unt.edu/pais/howtochoose/why.htm Then type the words: "Salaries of high school and college graduates" into your computer search box and read more. The reality is that book knowledge ( college degree) opens more doors and will offer you a better lifestyle and retirement income. Your medical condition may effect your insurabilityand future medical costs so plan ahead now. A good friend of mine got a degree in industrial engineering, bounced around from job to job for several years, and is now working for Honda in AL helping to design the 2010 models. He's 32. Work with your brain, NOT your back!
The rail road. Thats what i do. Union Pacific. He won't have to stand for long periods of time and we WILL NOT have to work very hrad. It's a great job with great benitifs. They are hirring alot right now due to the large turn over going on with retirees. A good path for him would be either Machinist(what I am), Boilermaker, or Carman. They also have opening's for Conductors and Engineers. I can also personally put in a referal for him. That kind of helps get his foot in the door sooner. Hope this helps. http://www.unionpacific.jobs/careers/apply/state.cfm?state=CA
i'd have to say go to school, get an engineering technologist degree, when you get out find a job at a metal fab shop that has turret punch presses, press brakes, cnc cutting tables ,an R&d department, a tooling department, and that will let you use the equipment after hours, you get to earn money, have the best of equipment and maybe develop a product line of your own.
Thanks guys and gals. I'm going to sit him down in front of the computer and make him read each one of these posts. Slowly. Outloud. To me. With long-ass discussion to follow. - Dave. Keep 'em coming, please!
Storm King, my son has 13 rental properties and lives in his first house with payments of $300 a month. owns two shops and is starting another business. I didn't mean to talk money, I was referring do finding one's passion. you are asking us what your son can do in life. you should be asking him what he wants to do. if I tried to guide my son in a different direction, I don't think he would have made a dime. Life is more than dollars and cents. I semi-retired at age 50 and haven't had an ulcer or head ache since I was 50. I found that life is less having what you want and more wanting what you have.
Lot's of good advice so far and perhaps I reiterate... education, education, education. For the 18 year old with the ambition to follow this path... go to school. An art degree is about doing things not just "book learning." Much of what we see on this board certainly has strong art links. Knowing something about style and color and the myriad things you could apply to a hot rod is surely worth knowing or learning about. An art degree is not just about becoming a painter or sculptor. Paying one's dues is another aspect of living the life you choose. If one applied himself and the cards fell in your favor you could work in a shop doing basic stuff while you went to school, getting educated and paying those dues concurrently. The arts offer no guarantee of financial security or material reward. Like Storm King, I did a hitch in aerospace hustling F-16s and loved it. Now I teach art in a barrio school. Am I happy and fulfilled? You bet. Best of luck, himmelberg
Every parent should take the opportunity and sit their teenage child in front of the computer to read this particular thread. Not just because this is about continuing education BUT becuase this is basicly about choices that a person makes in life and how that one choice can change their life forever. His choice of riding a motorcycle changed what he will be able to do in life, whether it's just temp or permanant, bottom line is he can't stand or wear something heavy for long periods of time. Point is to teach and reinforce it time and time again that what they choose to do today, can and will, effect them forever, whether they want to believe it or not. We hear horror stories daily on someone texting or talking on a cell phone while driving and killing someone, deaths by drunk drivers, drugs, unprotected sex, the list goes on. Todays choices, no matter how minor, do have a lasting effect on ones life. Trust me, I was no staint and am surprised I turned out so well considering what I have experienced and some of the poor choices I made early in life, BUT I did have the basics of a GREAT education to fall back on AND I still had a good time during the years I went to college....all eight of them. We as adults need to share our earlier mistakes and successes with the younger crowd, our own kids, and those of our friends, so that we give them food for thought and the insight to make decent choices, even better ones then we might have made.
At 18yrs old, I tangled with my CR500 hillclimber and broke my back. At the time I was working in a body shop. I realized that working on cars was great, but working on concrete all day is hard on your body. I toughed it out at the body shop for 4 more years to put myself through engineering school. A good white collar profession (high pay, benefits, 3 1/2 weeks of vacation, etc) goes a long way in letting a guy pursue his car hobby and supporting a family.....just make sure you're not unhappy being a white collar worker. LosBoulevardosJames (Good God that's a long damn user name ) has some good points, I know railroaders that make damn near as much as I do and have never been to college.....
If he's into mechanics and cant handle physical work..... go to school if he can.... go mechanical engineering route..... and then work on design work / coordination with anything mechanical. I tend to believe a mechanical kinda guy loves most everything mechanical-- and sometimes working all day on cars only kills your passion to work on your own cars (when i worked at a shop, i didnt really work so much on my own cars versus nowadays.) Sometimes it's better to keep a hobby a hobby By the way-- my dad in an uneducated goon like me. He started as a mechanic in the auto/boat industry, then got into mechanical engineering (without the degree, but just through being kick ass.) When the auto industry went to shit, he moved us to CA in 1980 and now is a mechanical engineer doing aerospace stuff. He doesnt have to do hard back breaking work-- but now he complains his back hurts from sitting on his ass working :-D -scott noteboom
kind of in the same boat myself, my son is 17 and a senior in high school. for the last 3 years of school i've been telling him to quit dicking around and get good grades, all the while him telling me he wants to do the 'car thing'. so, naturally as a 20 year veteran of the new car dealer experience as a tech, i tried to pound it in his head to work smart, not hard, [not to mention the fact it took me over 10 years to get into a position where i was making any kind of money at it], i.e. get an education, make some real money doing something else you like, and make the 'car thing' a hobby, as it's WAY more enjoyable that way. i've also been showing him my paystubs for a few years now to show him what it takes to 'run' a household, [ i never had a clue when i was younger, money was never openly discussed ], it seems to have worked to an extent, as college has been a hot topic of conversation for awhile now, we just gotta figure out how to pay for it as 'just' a high school grad myself i know how hard it is to bust your ass for a living, and although i learned a lot of valuable life lessons, i'd rather my kids get to work maybe a little less, and earn a lot more than i ever did during their careers by working smart. best of luck to him finding something that he enjoys/is able to do, and make a good living at, i sure as hell wish i'd have spent more time exploring my options as a younger man.
Since no one's given a clear cut answer, just a lot of opinions......... Service Writer. Pays well, desk job with shop cruises. No heavy lifting, standing, or lugging of tools around. He'll also be near and dear to what he loves, without sacrificing his body any further.
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