home built, no numers, how do i get a title?

Getting close to finishing my ’29 roadster pick-up and anxious to drive it, but before anything need to register it. I live in Texas and like many other states, Texas is really picky about all paper work for registering an old vehicle.
My problem is I don’t have a title or any other paper work, I don’t have any I.D numbers or vins. The motor is off a 58 caddy, frame is home made, and 75% of the body is original ’29. I really don’t want to register it as a “2010 assembled vehicle” I’d like to keep it as a ’29. Any suggestions?

 

spend the money and buy an old title from someone and register it with that title.there are people that can also sell you vin plates for the frame to match the title.i would also try to get a title from texas that way you dont have to take it somewhere to have them check the #s.the only problem with this is if you go to sell it to a different state there might be a problem.

 

I do not know about Texas, but here in Pennsylvania you can apply for a reconstructed street rod title and the state gives you a VIN plate. It comes down to they want the sales tax for parts. It is not as difficult as people make it out to be. It took me exactly 1 month.


Ago

 

Have a good frirend come in while you are shopping and have him stamp some numbers on it. Use them. IFasked "did you make up those numbers?" (but they wont ask you that) you can say "No, they were stamped in both the frame and chassis."
Don

 

There are a lot of questions of this nature concerning titles for reconstructing old cars.Why don't you do the obvious and consult with the DMV first to see what is required legally to get it licensed?If you decide to do it another way,at least you will know where you stand with the law.

 

The original poster picked an appropriate username "Kriminal" if he decides to do it this way. I realize it's fairly common to do this from all the titles & blank VIN tags I see for sale but it's also a federal crime and probably a crime in most states as well.... If it was me I'd go with the state issued VIN number & not worry about having the car impounded and going to jail.... If you do decide to do it this way don't post anything about it on a public website.. Just some friendly advice. There's a reason the guys selling titles are calling them "historic documents for display only" Selling the titles is legal, selling a blank piece of metal is legal, using the 2 to title a car is a felony. I bet most of you don't even realize that simply owning a set of reproduction VIN tag rivets is a crime. And for the record I'm not a cop & I don't play one on TV. I've been in the used car business for many years, have managed a couple salvage yards, been certified to do state inspections which includes signing DMV VN number verification forms, and I know a little about what you can & can't do.

 

I have been "creative" titling my rods for over 50 years. The key is...when you get pulled over be real nice to the cop. I have never had one look for a VIN number, and I`ve been pulled over more than most...to quote: "I cant drive 55"

 

In KS we've got 3 Hipo officers that are assigned to this very job. The titling a home built is easy, if you have a receipt for each part. That's all they really want. I have no receipts, so he told me i'd need to file for a "quiet title"

around $175 to file quiet title, but the lawyer needed typically is from $300-$1500. Put add in paper stating that if you can prove it's yours, come prove it. Then when no one steps up, you go before the Judge and the lawyer asks the judge to grant you official ownership. Then one of the 3 hipo's rivets a tag to your ride.

 

I have been a cop for 35 years. The only place you'd get caught is a state vehicle inspection upon initial registration. If caught the vin is gonna be run to see of it is reported stolen on NCIC. If you don't run a VIN that has been reported as belonging to a stolen car and anyone you sell the car to doesn't make an issue, which they won't because once you have a registered title any other state accepts it, you are good to go. A lot of things are crimes, but if there isn't any victim, no one is gonna waste good dognut time on messing with it. The whole thing about titles, is states want money, that's it. I also ride a Harley, it is more of an issue on bikes because some cops want to hassle bikers (especially ones advertising with 1% patches) so running VIN's and matching records is more of an issue. Soooo, unless you stole a car, no one can prove that you committed any crime and you will not go to jail. If caught you might pay a fine but that's remote. Do what you want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone and deny everything if asked. I and every cop I ever worked with realize that there are a lot of crimes on the books that are there specifically to be used on selected folks who just can't seem to get in line with the rest of society. If you aren't one of those folks you'll be fine.

 

If you have receipts and serial numbers for all major parts, you can go the contructed vehicle route. I would recommend that you dig up the bill of sale for the body with the VIN number on it and process for a bonded title through Lawrence Title, and get antique plates.

 

For those of you that say "do it the legal way" have any of you actually tried? Here in texas it is a complete mess just to get a bonded title. That is for a car with VIN but no title. My sister and I went through it and she almost got rejected because on one paper her name was with middle initial and one paper it was without, and BOTH papers were typed up by the DMV itself! That's just a small example of the pain we went through. I think it was a total of 5 trips to the main office, countless re-dos on paper work, and an appraisal so they can get thier tax money. This was a stock '62 galaxie too.

I know there is way for people with cobra kits to get them registered as a new build, and right now the law is fairly lax and leave it up to the individual DMV to decide what "year" your car is. I've heard that the DMV in Garland has a car enthusiast in this department and he will title it as the year it resembles. If not, you will have to pass inspections etc.

I got a title for one of mine, had the DMV check it and they said it was good. My car had no numbers, and they'll never check. so I'm home free.

If you get a title make sure it is nice and clean, no strange photocopy looking stuff, no white-out or extra writing, and only the sellers name filled out on the back. If it has the new owners name on the back and it is not yours, you are screwed.

 

You really sound like you know your stuff.

Where can we learn how to get a state issued VIN number? Who do we ask what the requirements are?

Where can we learn what the emissions requirements are? I found some gobbledygook on the TX state website but it was too confusing and HUGE to decipher. It would take months to figure out and then I might miss some detail. Where can I ask questions and get straight answers that are fact. I've heard a lot of opinions and some really good guesses that make sense but who knows what the facts are?

Should I just walk into the DMV and ask the person at the front desk? I'm reluctant to do that because it's been my experience that if I go to a government office with something unusual, the person trying to help me is so afraid of making a mistake that it's just easier to tell me, "No. You can't do that." no matter what it is. Or else they ask enough people who ask other people until they find someone who is willing to give a flippant, "No." and then everything comes to a halt. Besides, there's a line behind me and they don't want to bother with something time consuming or difficult. If I'm on the phone instead of in person, it's ten times worse. I guess that's just human nature but I've got a hot rod I need to drive!

If I could get my ducks in a row before going in, then I could help them help me by saying, "Here's what we need to do. These are the steps I've taken already and here are the steps we'll need to take next."

Is there someone besides the people at the front desk that has been around longer or who's job and training is to handle difficult or unusual cases? Is there a pamphlet? Or do I just need to be polite and persistent with the folks at the front counter?

Maybe I'm making this a bigger deal in my mind than it really is. If you could just tell me who or what department I need to ask what I need to do to get it registered and pass inspection, me and a lot of other HAMBers in Texas would really appreciate you.

Thanks for your advice.

 

I'm recommending these guys. You will need a bill of sale with a VIN on it though.

http://www.lawrenceautotitle.com/

 

Unfortunately every state is different so while I'm very familiar with how we do things in NH, Texas might as well be a foreign country. For example here vehicles over 15 years old don't need a title. You couldn't buy one if you wanted to. That's where I come in as far as signing the VIN verification forms. Like the 35 year veteran cop for example. His point that nobody is ever going to check the VIN may very well apply in his state but here in NH every time a vehicle over 15 years old get sold it has to be brought to either DMV, a licensed dealer or a state inspection station (me) to have the VIN tag checked and the VIN verification form signed or you don't get plates. If any of those people see a fake home made VIN tag you can bet the next thing they do it to call the DMV anti-theft department and ask them what to do. Your car WILL be impounded and held until you prove the car and all the parts used to build it aren't stolen. That's how it's done here. Your mileage may vary. My comments in my earlier post come from experience and from stuff I've read over the years. For example the repro VIN tag rivets. There used to be guys who sold them on Ebay. They got busted by the feds, fined big bucks, spent more bucks on lawyers, and don't sell them anymore. I'm not talking about trim tag rivets, those so far are legal and are still sold. I'm talking about the special tamperproof rivets used by the manufacturers for VIN tags on the 60s & later cars. I'm also not trying to tell anyone how to go about getting their car titled in their state. Just throwing some friendly advice out there that may or may not save someone a huge hassle & some heavy legal fees.

 

Do it right, and do it legally!!! Shit, why do people feel the need to skirt the fucking law when it comes to getting paperwork for a damn car?

http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/titles/title_vehicle.htm

TX Bonded Title info - http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/titles/bonded.htm

Read. Call. The proper way is spelled out. Seems to me, it would be like a kit car in some aspects, but call the State, or one of your title agents can help. That way, you won't BE a "kriminal"

 

Yes, I have. In OK, anyway, it's a three-week process that costs about $200 by the time everything is done - which gets the vehicle tagged AND titled, perfectly legal, through the State. No need to fake VIN plates, use a title that never went to that vehicle, etc. A vehicle with NO VIN or title takes going through the County Courthouse in the county one resides, and file a petition with the judge. That process takes a bit longer, and provides a State-assigned VIN. Point is - my vehicle is tagged and titled, and LEGAL. And...MINE!

Fifty States, Fifty different procedures. If your State makes things a PITA, then CHANGE it! Elect people that will! Petition your State lawmakers to change things! You guys that sit around and bitch about the law when it comes to whatever - DO something about it! Your DMV or equivalent does not write the law - they interpret and apply it - and sometimes they're wrong, too. Your Legislature WRITES the statutes! Talk to THEM! If they won't listen - get them out at the next election! Better yet, run yourself!

 

One option that you might think about. Buy a good historical document that is correct for your body (it is steel isn't it) transfer it to your name and get plates and tags and then in down the road a ways go in and have the paperwork updated "because you built a new frame for your car because the old one was too chopped up to use).

Otherwise it is take the receipts for everything, go to the dmv and go constructed vehicle with it and drive the wheels off it and be legal.
In the early 70's I built this T in Texas and went constructed vehicle.


I think it took taking the paper work, a few photos and the receipts for major parts to the Texas dmv and getting it done.
I never hand one swinging Richard razz me because I had a "constructed vehicle" title on my 23T. I caught some crap because it had some rough edges but it was my first real effort at building a rod and I didn't have much tied up in it.

What I am saying is it really that damned important what it says on the title as long as the damned title is the correct title for the car and you are out driving the wheels off it.

What I can't comprehend is why guy after guy on here build cars without a clue or plan on how they are going to register them. I'd think that you would be investigating that from the day you first hauled the body home and started on it. In that time you might have been able to find a hulk with a clear title, a title or make other plans to get it squared away.

 

You might try some searches. Here are a couple of key words you should try searching with:

Title felony

 

I agree with the "have any of you who say do it the legal way actually done it. "No" would be the obviuos answer. When we build trailers they ask us to put a serial number on it ("before you get here"). Anything we want but a reasonable number of digits and preferbly a letter or two. There is nothing illegal whatsoever about putting a Vin or serial number on something you built yourself. All the guy at the bureau wants is a vin number . I like to have someone else stamp it for me so if by chance i get asked did I put it there I can say no but that may be foolishness on my part brought about from years ofdealing with cicil cervants who I find extremely annoying. Now if you stole the car or some of the parts then that is a different thing and you deserve t0 get wacked but If you made it you are entirely within the law putting a vin number on it. If not you then WHO? In fact it is far more legal then using a Vin of something else.
So worst case ceneraio , you get in court and the judge asks why it has that vin number . You say because i made it in my shop from the ground up and that is the number I assigned to it. ????????? no brainer. Up here I see guys buy a car and take the vin numbers from the body and take the dash of a junk car and install them in another vehicle similar. Now that I think is illegal. But if YOU made it from the ground up you can decide on the number. Sometimes the license guy will tell you what to do if you are listening . Dont make his life any harder than it needs to be. When he asks the vin number just give him for example MIMYSLF345687 (which means Made It My SeLF and it cost me $34,5687. ) And make sure it was stamped on the frame and body by you or if you are thinking like me by someone you trust.

Don

 

Don that all sounds great and in the old days it might have even worked but now I'm not so sure. I'm thinking that if you're claiming it's totally new construction then they are gonna want it to meet 2010 safety and emissions standards. Times are changing. For example with guys that used to build new bikes using a brand new aftermarket frame & brand new engine the law now is that you can only build 1 in your lifetime and you have to keep it a certain number of years before you can sell it. The unofficial word is that those laws were pushed through by Harley Davidsons lawyers because the "kit bike" builders were hurting new bike sales. Here's something else for the guys who think it's cool to use an old "collectible" title for their car. Lets suppose the car the title originally came with is still out there somewhere and someone finds it and fixes it. Now there's 2 cars out there with the same VIN... You think the DMV cops won't catch that stunt especially if they are both titled in the same state ?

 

I used a title service out of alabama. It was a bitch, but I have a title in my name for the vin plate the hipo verified.

 

Did you take a lot of pictures of the build itself? hopefully with you in them? it might help in the process if you can show them the car actually being built. just an idea.

 

"Here's something else for the guys who think it's cool to use an old "collectible" title for their car. Lets suppose the car the title originally came with is still out there somewhere and someone finds it and fixes it. Now there's 2 cars out there with the same VIN... You think the DMV cops won't catch that stunt especially if they are both titled in the same state ?"

It's 2010 and everything is by computer now. The DMV would catch that. The bad thing would be drawing attention to yourself. That would be a serious no no.

 

Let me run this by this panel of experts...I'm in NC..I'm building from the ground up a 26 TrackT....Six years ago ,as I started my project,I bought a title for a 26 T. I immediately transferred it to an NC title in my name. My project should be finished by April/May,so I'm about ready to buy a tag.. Anybody in this neck of the woods knows what I may run into with the DMV. I asked last year at the tag outlet ,and was told that there would be no problem with selling me a tag based on my NC title..Anybody in this neck of the woods knows what I may run into with the DMV if I should buy a tag...

Stan

 

If you have the title in your name, there is no problem. That would be the case in any state.

A lot of these questions can be answered with a phone call to the DMV. That was the first thing I did and I didn't even have a frame yet.

 

In some states if it doesn't have the original frame (an aftermarket or custom built frame) then it has to be registered as a special construction.

 

if you do this, do some research and at least pick a number that could have been( actually was). it has to be between X and Y to be the right sequence. this is just theoretical of course I would never suggest that you or anyone break the law

 

Im in the same boat as Kriminal cause i bought a 36 chevy cab and have no title and have been told that if i get a frame from like an s-10 or k5 blazer to make sure to get the title for the frame at least. I know it was a bad buy cause the fact that i didnt get a title with it. so im at a point of confusion.

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97015

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71689

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=248998

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=203076

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209325

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157562

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141919

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141919

 

Seriously? So, if I build a car, I can just "assign" a randomly-generated VIN from my head and be legal, huh...

BULLSHIT!

VINs are assigned in EVERY State by whomever the licensing/titling authority is, NOT YOU.