Projects Hotrob's fiasco of a "Model A Coupe" build thread

The subrails were not drilled, but lucky for me I saved what was left of the subs when I cleaned uo the cowl in preparation for installing the new ones. I lined em up and marked the location of the holes.

This at least located the front, I will measure the door opening and adjust from there.

I got them set in and they look pretty good. I still need to get the patches in before I can get the quarters mounted to the subrails.

 

Then I trimmed the rear of the subrails to fit over the rear step up, and the fire wall for the front.

 

Which brings me to the heart sink part!
I pulled the motor and transmission because I know the fire wall needs to be trimmed to fit over the motor, then I grabbed my wife (she is back home thank God!), and the neighbor and we set the the body on the frame and this is what I saw.

 

Hey rob your doing a nice job definently satisfing doing it yourself you were right about the bones nothing looks better especially drilled ones also bitchin rear spring brackets. I have a tig welder now but went many years with a 110 wire feed i found a little trick that might help with the welds, use an oxygen/ acetiline torches and pre heat your weld areas on the heavier metal this will greatly help with penatration and the dreaded cold start blobs keep postin your progress and pics your doin a great job!

 

As you can see the wheel sits about 2 1/2 inches too far forward in the wheel well. I know that Eric hs done plenty of these so the frame has got to be right, so It must be something I did wrong. Now before you write and tell me to push the frame forward, it don't work like that.

The forward kickup fits right where it belongs in the cowl. No it was me I am sure. I bought the rear spring hanger for the late model banjo which is longer than the 32 style. So it looks like the rearend is coming back out so I can replace the spring mounts......Bummer.

I will call Eric at Rileys tomorrow to see if my diagnosis is correct.

As Always you guys will be the first to know.

I did get some other stuff done I will post that below.

 

Ah it's only a minor set-back, you've been kickin ass on this project from the git-go. Cut/Weld/Grind & you'll be back on track. Your build is inspiring!

 

Totally am coming by, life has been chaotic. I need to hurry, or you will have it all finished up eh.

Talk to ya soon.

 

Everything looks good so far.
But make sure you bring that rear wheel back what ever it takes!
My 2 cents

 

This is the first of many setbacks....take it from me. Keep pushin forward!!!!

 

If I read that correctly,you used the spring hanger from a late Ford v-8?
That would be correct, 7.5" from axle centerline to spring centerline.
On my first cup of coffee here...but here is some pictures showing body to frame to help you out.

 

Thanks Eric, helpfull as always.
Ok guys Eric and I also spoke this morning and he tells me that he jigged the frame with the 7 1/2 hanger same as what I used, so my original diagnosis is no good.
He thinks that the ladderbars may be adjusted too short, effectively pulling the rearend forward. I am told to check the wheel base to confirm it at 106". If this is short, the axle has to move back somehow! If it is at 106 then god only knows.
I will check this after work and update the thread accordingly.

 

Don't loose heart Rob.Shit happens.Worst case scenario,cut and re weld.
Keep up the great work!
Mark.

 

That's why you only tack weld everything and then blow it apart to do finish welds.

 

Man I love this kinda stuff nice pics on the fit up of the frame a cowl. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

 

We need a collective list of things to live by when building rods and that ought to be number one on the list.

Rob, out of that sight setback it looks like you are on your way to building one sweet little rod.

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I did the same thing when I built my roadster. Got the wrong spring mounts for the rear end I was using and finish welded everything in place.
Then I had to cut everything out and put the right spring hangers in and re-weld everything back in place.
The second time, I just tack welded everything until I knew I was right...
r

 

sweet job Rob love the way this thread is coming together much to learn from it love everyones careful thought input keep it going Rob great job

 

Thanks for the encouragement guys. That is one of the things that I wanted to be sure to include, nay focus on. We see these build threads and it seems like these rods are being built in a matter of weeks without issue or snag.
My life and experience are somthing quite different.

Yes in retrospect I should have tacked the suspension together, but I had no inclination that there could possibly be an issue.
I guess thats the point to guard against the unseen eh?

But if Eric is right and I suspect he is, there should be no reason to cut out the mounts. i should be able to adjust out the ladder bars to correct the position.

Boy that sounds too simple does'nt it! Can't wait to get home, this is killing me.

 

LOL... I had to take a break from the pace... It was killing the rest of my life. And the trany spung a leak... so a set back for me, but one I can handle...

 

If it were me, and it has been me in the past, I'd shorten the spring hangers, and move the ladder bars a little closer together on the axle, or make "deeper" brackets.

It happens, and it happens to everyone, even the ones who won't admit it. Nice work so far. Hang in there.

 

Here is an update and latest entry into this hotrod commentary.

I checked the wheel base and it showed to be 105.5". This is essentially where it should be. I also checked to see if the ladder bars were adjusted so tight that they were pulling the axle forward, knowing all along that they were not. Indeed the spring is directly beneath the crossmember where it belongs. I knew that this could not likley be the issue because of all the work I did with the pinion angle and rearend geometry, but I thought it was worth a look.

Obviously I have been careless somewhere or I would not have the problem that I have, but you must know that I have taken great pains to square up and properly install all of the components. I am not "throwing" this car together. This is one of the central reasons I am so perplexed and dissapointed by this issue.

With these things said I think I with the help of Eric the frame builder and all of your imput have potentially discovered at least part of the issue.

Oh before I continue I should discuss one warning sign that I ignored that may be of some use to one of you.

When I went to install the ladder bars after welding in the rearend bracketry I found that the ladderbars seemed too long. I had to install them without the jam nuts! Now why I did not stop there and cipher through the problem I don't know, but I did not. I stopped short of cutting down the ladder bars like I considered thank god, but that should have been a greater cue that something was wrong.

Lesson: if something should be fitting and it is not, do not continue until
you clearly know why. If I would have done that I could have potentially discovered that there was a greater problem before getting this far.

Now to the potential offender. After some research I have discovered that the only component that I have used that is different than what Eric uses building these frames is the spring hangers. When I called him I was expecting him to say that he used the shorted 32 style hangers, but he did not. He explained that he did indeed use the later 40 style hangers, the 7 1/2" type. Well thats what I used too, except that he used pete& Jakes., and I used Speedway motors.

After researching and measuring I have discovered that the Speedway brackets measure 8 1/4" from the center of the axle tube to the center of the spring. An 81/4' setback if you will. Now I have been told and have always understood that the 40 ford style hangers have a 7 1/2" setback. THis is yet to be confirmed, but if that is accurate then the difference could move my axle forward by 3/4 of an inch.

Thats it 3/4 of an inch. Thats all I can find. Look at that picture. Do you guys think 3/4 of an inch will put that wheel in the right place? Well its all I have.

That said I thing the best way to proceed is to determine how much I need to come back and just remove that much from the spring hangers and go with that.

I know this has been a long post, but I have one final note for those that are still following and I will continue it in a new reply because I want to do what I can to ensure it gets seen.

 

Ok this is my disclaimer as a product critique.
I have identified products by name several times above, along with comments regarding their fitment and quality derived from how I percieve them.

I AM AN AMATEUR ! My opinion is worthless. Do not rely on the opinion of this garage hero to determine whether Brookville, Speedway or any other of the companies out there perform as they should. My offerings are commentary regarding my narrow thoughts on an issue. Purely entertainment. If you gleen some value from my foley that is all the better but my intent is not to bad mouth any of these companies that I personally rely on. My custom hotrod build is just that; it is mine and; it is CUSTOM. I realize fully that I am not going to bolt together a hotrod out of a catalog, no matter how much that may seem the case.

So why this statement? To avoid any problems before they arise. To avoid hurt feelings and negative conversation on this thread.

Ok thats feels better, now back to business.

 

I think that will be the answer in the end.

 

good looking build keep it up

 

hey HOTROD...looking good. like a hotrod should! man i hope you have more luck than i did, 1 time with retreds. the ruber just peeled right off. i'am just saying! your building a class a rod. but i would keep a close eye on those slicks, maby nothing or real big somrthing. call me POP...or the old FART!

 

Love it!

 

Hey Rob.... great looking project. You got us all hanging here so make sure you keep the updates coming, we're all enjoying them. Thanks man, Mike

 

Hey Rob,

I'm coming into this thread just now but after reading what's quoted, I've got to say I admire you putting it all out there. If things went together easily every time there'd be so many shmoes building cars.

You've got a hurdle to get over, that's all, and when it's done, I'll guarantee you won't be an amateur.

 

Time to change Gears. I will come back to the rear suspension after the Thanksgiving holiday.

In the meantime thanks to all who have offered encouragement. I got a little frustrated and your comments and offers to help really made a difference.

So here we go with a little side project to keep things moving along. As I mentioned earlier in the thread I am using a rearend from a mid seventies camaro. I got it from a scrapyard where it spent a few years outdoors.
As a result the wheel studs were very rusty and needed replacing.

So I ordered a tool online to install the new studs from Autozone.
The tool cost $40 and was manufactured by KASTAR. See the pic.

The studs came out remarkably easily with a 3lb hammer and no heat at all.

Next I oiled up the studs with some 3 in 1 oil and used the KASTAR tool with the impact.

They went right in. The whole proceedure took 30 min. for both wheels.

Installed the new longer lug nuts and wheels and she is ready to roll.

The tool made it extremely easy and the quality seemed to be great. I would usually use the wheel and a lugnut to pull in the stud. This was again much easier.

 

Think you're doing the right thing,Rob.Best thing to do when a job has you stumped is to walk away,and either take a break or do something else.
Go back to it when you're ready.
As was previously said,we all have problems like this during a build just not everyone admits it!
My rear has been out twice so far to make changes,and I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out again before I'm done!