Hot Rods How can I fire my inline four without a distributor?

OK, don't know (probably has been asked before) how can I fire my inline four without a distributor? I am wanting to eliminate the distributor because it will interfere with the intake I want to build.

I ran over to Summit Racing at lunch time to ask them if they had some "kit" I could buy to do same and they looked at me like I had three heads, one of which was green. They said it couldn't be done.

OK, does anyone here have an answer? It seems like in the day of computers it could be done. One other option would be an angle drive, but don't want to go that way.

 

I don't know what you are using for a banger, but a crank trigger and a box will probably fire it or you can get a mag off of a 4 cylinder bike like a Yamaha and belt drive it.

 

I suppose you could rig up a crank sensor for a modern ignition. Then again, you might want to visit some places other than traditional hot rod forums for this kind of thing.

Beener has a point. In the old days those engines could be outfitted with a Bosch magneto.

 

You don't have 3 heads? HRP

 

i have used an Electromotive crank trigger ignition. Worked great on a race car. Not cheap. If you can machine a little it is not hard to use cam drive pulleys from some OHC engine and make a drive for a distributor or mag. You could also make an offset drive for the stock location. I have shortened a distributor to clear an intake. Lots of work arounds if you are willing to do the work. Here is a picture of a twin ignition I made that could be an offset if you lost the inside distributor. Also shows how they can be shortened. these are pinto distributors. Belt drives for the oil and fuel pumps are made from an old OHC Lotus engine cam drive. All this is cheap if you can do the work.

 

Check out the setup on a LT-1. May give you ideas for the required clearance. Not sure what drives it.

 

I like RichFox's idea. Geo 4cyl dizzys are small too.

 

No but I do got 3 balls does that count?

 

Nearly all modern bikes and many cars use a crank trigger setup with a 'wasted spark' system (a pair of cylinders fire, one on compression, one on exhaust; you need twin tower coils, commonly available). The trick will be finding a unit with the right 'mechanical advance' curve (it's done in the electronics) for your application.

 

sounds like a 2.3. There is compu-tronix.com/DIS4F23L.htm or MSD DIS-2 and a cam or crank position sensor or if not a Ford get an MSD DIS-2 and some sort of crankshaft position sensor. If 2.3 I am building a short distributor and will finish once I get a couple dozen plants in the ground.

 

Phill;

I am working on a 3.7 Mercruiser. Seems like the thread on that engine is dead, so I started this one. I read through the 40 pages of that thread and found nothing. Thanks for the info on the Compu-teonix.

Rich:

The offest may be one answer, that way I could even invert the distributor upside-down. How is your set up driven internally?

The major problem I face is that the distributor is crammed up close to the intake port of the engine. Even if I drop the unit down a couple inches, it still we be in the way of what I plan to do.

 

I am not looking at your setup but another option is to drive it off the front of the cam shaft. Poke it through the timing cover sticking out the front of the engine. I have seen mags run that way before no reason a distributer couldn't be run that way.

 

I have a 3.7 too, with the notched runner to clear the stock distributor. Nichols ran an HEI long shaft distributor and it put it the distributor above the intake before he went to a belt drive distributor. Since the distributor is a Chevy with a Ford hex pump drive, borrow a SBC one to check height, then add a split collar and modify the pump drive.

 

Fox's design epitomizes a lot of streams on the HAMB...it is modern high tech adapted to ancient iron, and yet the layout and design of the dual distributors is unmistakably a descendant of the WWI era Stutz dual used by many racers of the Jur***ic era!
I think that is pure coolness. And I haven't seen a Stutz at Pick&Pull in ages...

 

Bruce it seems like several cars had twin distributers way back then. Pierce Arrow comes to mind for me.

The whole twin setup on Fox's engine looks like something one would see on the salt only when it would have been more common the block holding the distributers would have been either welded up or cast. way easier to carve it out of a block of aluminum then to cast or weld one. it falls back on find a problem and invent a solution.

 

The offest may be one answer, that way I could even invert the distributor upside-down. How is your set up driven internally?
/QUOTE] The shaft that drives the "normal" distributor has had a gear added to it. It drives a smaller idler gear which keeps the rotation correct and that drives a second gear on the added distributor. I bought these Boston Gears at an industrial supply. You may or may not want to reverse the rotation of what ever distributor you use. I have run well over 8000 rpm with these German Bosh distributors with no reason to curse them.

 

Listen to Rich. The man knows his stuff.

 

Before the modern era of crank triggers, many of the foreign 4 bangers used the cam to drive a dizzy. Most of those are real short, but some may turn backwards for what you are doing

 

If Bruce Lancaster thinks my distributor drive is "cool" then i know i did good. As far as welding or casting or carving it out of a block. It kind of depends on what you do best. I'm not much of a welder and am not going to cast a one off even if I knew pattern making. But making chips is what i do anyway so that is usually my answer to most questions. Actually i did make weldment twin drive for an odd fire Chevy V6 years ago. Used two Mallory 3 cylinder distributors for a Chrysler outboard. But it was for a welder and he did the welding. Still had to do almost as much machining and it was ugly.

 

A lot of good suggestions her.

Driving from the front of the cam is a good idea except that the water pump is driven off of the front of the cam already.

Craig

 

Do note that backs of cams work too. Some Bugattis had a magneto going straight back quite a ways with the cap visible through the dash like part of the row of instruments...
I suspect crank trigger is the way to go, though...some catalog like MSD with boxes to control curves and such will probably offer everything needed without a full OEM type computer setup.

 

Moroso sells a fly magnet setup that can be run through an MSD box. I am not sure but you may have to run it coil on plug though.

 

A lot of the import front-wheel drive four cylinder cars have a short distributor driven off the end of the cam, and older versions may even have centrifugal and vacuum advance.

 

I have seen several which use a distributor for a flathead that mounts on the front of the cam sprocket . the LT1 chevy uses a dog gear and drives thru the cam cover to the back of the opti units but they are only a 8 banger unit . for a computer set up you have to have a crank sensor/timing wheel , and a cam sensor to locate the firing sequences . there are some kits that use the Ford coil packs from the mod motors in the 1990's and the microsquirt computer set up ( you really wouldn't need the M/s as your just looking for the computer timing for the coils . when I worked at the college our wisconsin pony motor on our gen unit used a cogged belt and a block that a ford 4 cyl distributor was on , a problem with a magneato is the starting spring in it might make the belt jump when its turnign slow .

 

Go to: http://www.autosportlabs.net/Main_Page
Megajolt system. I have seen one on a 196 Rambler 6.
Not old school but cheap.

Nick

 

As i remember my old 550 Honda used two sets of points to fire four cylinders on the wasted spark system. Lots of bikes did. Don't remember what they did for advance. I have see Roline V8 engines with 8 sets of points and no distributor. Coil on plug sorta. No advance i think. If you look at Top Fuel cars they drive the extra mag with a tooth belt. Pretty small pulleys and belt. And those mags take some power to turn.

 

How about toothed belt drive....Mercury outboards ( the old standup inlines) used belt driven distributors....


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Late model coil pack, Ford has used them for at least 20 years.

 

I read an interview with I think Joe Hunt one time long ago telling about his magneto repair business. He said many of guys think a mag takes a lot of power to drive because of the resistance you feel when turning it by hand, but it isn't so. His test stand had been in use for 20 years with the same 1/4 horse electric motor to drive it the whole time.

I really like the cog belt drive idea myself. I used to see some belt drive fuel injection pumps in the late 60's on sprint cars. I always thought it looked pretty cool.

 

There was a guy here in town that had a homebuilt thing that he called the Blue Racer. he used a quad 4 that he converted to carbs and no computer and used a belt driven magneto ( his own belt drive conversion) from a Yamaha.

****Quad 4 didn't have a distributer, it used crank sensor.


****Pontiac