How Did Nazi Germany Symbols Become

associated with hot rodding? Specifically the iron cross. I was looking over in the For Sale and someone was selling original prints by, I think, Barris, Roth and/or Von Dutch.

I'm not trying to stir the pot OR debating right or wrong- just wanting to know the history (don't get the thread closed) . I know it's prevelant in the two wheeled world too.

As you know, my grandpa is an ole' time hot rodder from waaay back. When he sees these it really sets him off.

 

Some crosses associated with Germany and the military are WW1 and earlier, nothing to do with Nazis. Some are Maltese crosses. They're a common enough shape. On the other hand, Nazi anything isn't cool. And that's all I'm saying on the subject.

 

i guess a lot of roders in the early days was veterans and may pissed from society and the government ,so what is the best way to provke ?? yes dude german symbols in a nation that had war with germany ,its the same with surfers and punkrock ,do you think sid was a nazi ,may he was to stupid even to be a nazi but he allways weared swastika shirts , anarchy for the u.k

 

?Someway for some people to try and show rebellion against authority

 

Swastikas and iron crosses have a long human history - their use by the Nazis is just the most recent. Check out these Wikipedia pages.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross

One could ask why flames, skulls, pinup girls, etc., are also associated with hot rodding and bikes. People have always tended to personalize their surroundings and belongings with some type of graphics - whether it's a caveman or a fighter pilot.

 

I'm pretty sure that the iron cross came into hot rodding through surfing and the chopper culture of the 60s. how it came into that world i have no clue.

 

Nazi punks, FUCK OFF!!

 

As written before, the iron cross has nothing to do with nazism. It's an old symbol and as war decoration it was used long before ww2. Actually it's still in use as a symbol of the german bundeswehr.

How it got adapted into the rod/custom culture? No idea, but my guess is that a lot of american ww2 veterans brought home iron crosses with their loot. Some people obviously liked the symbol and maybe saw it as way to rebel against society when they used it on their cars/bikes.



More info on the iron cross: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_cross

 

it may be me...but i Vary,vary rarelysaw many iron cross painted cars,mirriors,shades,rims,uh..godknows and damn near any other accesory avialable...until modern times..

and i personally..think it's all dumb...and every silly rocka-f*g or OCc ,westCcccac person i see sporting the cross from head to toe...i just cringe inside and want to start throwing bricks...

ahh..gotta love the mainstream...


(but i'm just a drunken,sleep deprived opinated indivudual)

 

Yeah as most of you have stated iron crosses were medals of valour?(corage and bravery) issued by the german authorities before the nazis. Also Moon was using the symbol before WC Crappers and the like...

Maybe the hotrod connection come from the military aircraft connection...a guy painting and ironcross on his hotrod was an ace rebel wheelman? or could a bunch of small iron crosses on the door represent "kills" of BMWs, Porsche's etc

A question? has anyone painted a hotrod with a "rising sun"? (no offence)(just a symbol of the enemy)

 

red baron and ace of the skies. Bikers also got the german helmets. The skate scene has a lot of iron crosses and such. As far as symbolism or whatever I don't know but those small iron cross mirrors kick ass.

 

Although your question may have already been answered, looking at much of the stories that have been on the History Channel will support that many, if not most, of these symbols associated with Nazi's have a much more significant christian association in their past. Nazis were media prone and symbolism can mean a multitude of things over time. I guess their basic idea was why not take advantage of a good thing to further their movement and use symbols that were already significan in their own rite. It is unfortunate that some of them have lost their original meaning in the brief use by the Nazis. I still remember as a kid, finding it incredible, but the door knobs to the train station in Temple, Texas had the most common Nazi symbol on them. At the time, I had no idea that the symbol was not really anything to do with Nazis at all.

Me, I don't put a lot of stock in the assumption that all rodders in the 60's were prone to use such symbols as a statement against autority. I believe they liked to be different for sure, and that these symbols seemed sort of neat to a degree. I remember drawing cartoonish pictures as a kid and having friends who were much more artistic than myself who did even wilder ones. Hardly a protest. We just enjoyed being as wild as we could at the time. It had nothing to do with Nazis though. Most of us started making rods and driving cars of all sorts that sort of showed off trinkets of various kinds that were considered cool at the time. I wouldn't give a dime for a Rat Fink model or t-shirt these days, but at the time they first hit the stores they were great items to have and enjoy. Getting a t-shirt painted with all the regaila of storm trooper helmets, lots of fire, big bug eyes that had to be blood shot, and lots of iron cross stuff to go with it all was the coolest thing in my youger years. Cool.....a word that has actually overused it's original meaning, I suppose. Sure dates us now to use it.
Huey

 

wasnt there a cam company(schnieder?) that used the iron cross as their logo? having the cross sticker meant you had a hot engine and next thing you know everyone has to have one on their ride. like all the goobers with OCC decals in the back window of the ole f150 even tho they dont own a bike.

 

A swatstika is not called a "twisted cross" for nothing! It was a also an Indian tribe symbol at one time. Why someone would want it displayed on a vehicle other than a restored ME109 Messerschmidt is beyond me!

 

Hmmm, I see the stuff pop up all the time in "ye olden" days...but by that I mean the early/mid 1960's It really does not seem to pop up as much until you get to the 60's and the age of biker movies, hot rod movies, and surfing.

In fact the Bobby Fuller Four even mention a maltese cross going on the KRLA give-a-way car in the song "King of the Wheels," and in the 1965 promo shots it shows a decal of the cross on the little a bone window.

This is the maltese I am talking about...the Little Deuce Coupe is the only hot rod off hand I can think of that had the swas-E crap on it.

 

My degrees are in history, and i specifically study WWII...

the swastikas and iron crosses are in hot rods/biking because of the first Biker Clubs were composed of ex WWII aviator pilots/bombers.. they bought surplus military bikes (triumph, norton, harley, etc) and needed to have exitement since the war was over.

they put swastikas and iron crosses on their bikes just like a pilot puts them on their plane. it's a show of respect, and to be an outlaw at same time.

the romans would parade their defeated enemies insignias/weapons/captors through the streets of rome to show how great of an enemy they defeated.

by showing swastikas and iron crosses, it's like showing the same thing, a great enemy that you defeated and respect....

i have a problem with the public thinking the iron cross is bad. It's not, it's a highly honorable medal that goes back to the beginning of germanic knights, then the prussian/german empires maintained the iron cross for acts of bravery during combat. but the gay ass schools like to ban iron crosses under their anti-gang policies. but any expert can tell you that real neo-nazis wear anything BUT iron crosses because of what i just told you. (they have nothing to do with the Nazi Party, except that in 1939, Hitler re-issued the iron cross but with a small swastika on it, but it carried the same meaning of honest, order-following bravery. they didn't hand out iron crosses for shooting women and children, they were won by traditional and extraordinary acts within our geneva laws.

 

Schnieder cams is the first I can remember for the Maltese cross symbol being used in automotive. The chopper guys in the 60 / 70's used alot of german military symbols (Maltese cross, swastiga and SS) and that for sure was a statement against society.

Seems that the Maltese cross has only gotten popular since a certain bike builder used it in his logo.

BTW how many people wearing Von Dutch shirts do you think even know how who he was or what he did.

And then there is the Clay Smith Cams logo.......................

People do not know the origins, they just see others do it so it must be cool.
Typical Pop culture.

 

THIS is the correct answer, folks....

 

to answer the question in short.

"to piss off the squares"

same with swatztikas on choppers.

 

US military Marksman and Sharpshooter medals from WWII had a version of the iron cross on them, too. See below for examples:




So the inspiration could have even come from their own accomplishments in the military.

Hope this helps...

 

The Symbol used by the Anasazi indians was the REVERSE of the Nazi swastika. Also the swastika was used by the very ancient Egyptians. At one time it was a respected or at least innocent symbol --- Hitler changed that for all time.

 

I was in an antique shop and they had a case full of Nazi stuff. They had arm bands, toppers for flag poles, pins, metals, etc. I’m kind of an amateur history buff, I’ll get my history minor when I pick up my extra teaching credits, and knowing some of the history this stuff kind of creeped me out. I could not stop looking at it but at the same time I just wanted to walk away, weird stuff.

Also I have an Iron Cross tattoo on my left arm with a ’32 style V8 in side it as a tribute to two early symbols of hot rodding. The first affordable mass produced V-8 and the WWII veterans who helped make hot rods what they are today. I’ve only had one person say, “oh, that Jesse James symbol.” I politely set him straight.

 

All those symbols pre-date the Nazi movement, but where the "Iron Cross" is associated with Germany, the "Maltise Cross" is a symbol of the Knights of Malta. Two very different things. Does anyone know which is actually being duplicated? Snortonnorton's answer was great, by the way.

 

Quick search brought up this little primer, as well:
http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/gms/sinister.htm
Combine this brief synopsis with Snortonnorton's great post, and, well, I think you'll have your answer...

 

Going back to the origional question of how these symbols got into hotrodding - I think some WWII vet painted a cross on a rod or bike - someone saw that rod/bike liked the way it looked and painted it on their rod/bike..... I don't think anyone that put these symbols on their rods/bikes gave it much thought, they just did it because someone else did and they liked the way it looked or thought it was cool. It has multiplied from there - plain and simple.

 

Let me start off by saying that I was born in 1968 so I was not there at the time of the early hot roders. I can say though that my Father was. He was building rods before the Korean War. His friends were also there at the time....Ed Iskenderian, Dave Winfield, Zora Duntov. I could go on for a while about all the guys my Dad knew "back in the day" but it would take a while. My point is that I have a good frame of reference for my opinion on this topic as I have been around hot rods and hot rodding my whole life.

My Father is in constant amazement when he sees things like the Iron Cross and Swastikas, skulls and so on on cars. The few times I've asked him about stuff like that, he just shakes his head and says that it was never like that.

Now, that does not mean NO ONE EVER DID IT, just that it wasn't really part of the scene back then. There were always a few rebels here and there with some skull stuff or similar items, but he can't recall anyone with the crosses or swastikas.

I look at it like this....I think most guys with the Iron or Maltesse Crosses or the Swastikas realize that it wasn't really like that...it's just their modern twist they add to it. At least I hope they are smart enough to realize that???

It's like the "rat rod" crowd. I used to really get pissed at those guys. I used to think that they thought they were building traditional rods. Most of us realize that todays rat rods are nothing like a traditional hot rod, and you know what....after talking to a few rat rod guys, "most" of them also realize they are not building a traditional rod, just building their own modern version of a hot rod.

Just my 2 cents....

Matt

 

A lot of interesting opinions but the correct answer is that Schnieder Cams in San Diego where among the first to sell decals promoting their product. In the early sixties, if you had a Schnieder cam, you got two decals in the box with it. It predated the Clay Smith woodpecker by years. The Iron Cross has been an honored symbol in Germany since the Teutonic era. I think Roth was among the first to appropiate the Iron Cross into his designs. The skulls, swastikas and other forms of "rebellion" are of a much later vintage.

 

I've been to The Oracle of Delphi on Mt Olympus in Greece and some of the broken stones used in the Temple of Apollo had Maltese Crosses carved into them - so it goes back to at least 500 BC.

"Modern" popularization of the symbol is credited to the Knights of Malta - Order of St John of Jerusalem. A military order quartered at Rhodes in the Greek Isles from circa 1100 to late 1700's (corrections) At the time of the Rhodes occupation the Knights of Rhodes inherited the money, prestige and property of the Knights Templar when the Templars were "destroyed" by the French King Phillip the Fair in the early 1300's

Modern Knights of Malta include former Secretary of State's George Schultz and Alexander Haig. Prince Phillip of Great Britain. Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush. They are a completely autonomous diplomatic organization with their headquarters at the foot of the Spanish Steps in Rome and a direct pipeline to the Papal Authority.

 

All of the above is pretty correct. It's the recent media blitz that has brought it back into vogue. I do remember a "Roach Studios" T-shirt that has the SS symbol for a Chevelle as the nazi SS. That one pissed me off...and I was only 13 at the time.

People will emulate whatever is popular at different times. I always viewed the iron cross as a symbol of valor no matter what the nation or application. I'm glad someone posted the American versions.

Not to hijack this thread, but what about the Clay Smith logo? Mr Horsepower? I always wondered where that came from. In my youth I confused it with Thrush mufflers.

Skulls...gotta say that's my thing. Bones and skulls. They're just kinda creepy and spooky and in some twisted sense a sign of immortality to me. But then again my ancestors were pirates. Explains my fondness for the classic Jolly Rodger and any combination of it. Also refer to my avatar...kinda says it all.

 

Yup, WWII was the most significant event in human history. As a history buff and WWII collector, I have some of these symbols that are on "captured enemy equipment", not because of what they stood for, but because of my respect for our fathers and grandfathers for overthrowing and defeating this powerful threat to mankind. Capturing items from a defeated enemy and displaying them and their symbols is as old as history it self, even on our own continent.

overspray