Technical How do I get a nice rake on a '47 Plymouth

I second the process of using Aerostar coils and dropping the lower spring plate. You can always start with one and see what happens then do the other. Straight forward but you will get your hands dirty.
Also, be sure to relocate the top shock mount and look at a fatter sway bar.

 

Tilting your head dont cost time or money.....

 

Either way whatever happens the front end is getting rebuilt so this is the perfect time to experiment, and get very messy dirty! @73RR , thanks for the input it is sound like that the correct way to go about lowering the front.

Yes, the tape measure is the key. Also, to get some warm weather, we just got 6" of snow last week, not ready to get the car out yet. Maybe on to something here though! @RodStRace To me the front height doesn't look horrible, Aerostar springs could be all it needs. To me the back could use some assistance maybe 7.00-16 tires and more arch in the rear springs? Need to get more rear wheel to show.

 

Very true! While working on it last year, taking a break just looking, did a lot of that! That's what started this!

 

LOL start over and buy a 40 Ford with a rake.. ?

 

Ignore most of what's been offered here by the keyboard experts. Most of 'em have never been under a Plymouth, much less ever lowered one.

I ran a '48 coupe for many years, first with a modified front suspension then later with a hand-built stub frame.

In the earliest iteration I used dropped front knuckles, relocated shocks and cut coils for a modest yet noticeable improvement in the way it drove and looked. Rode and drove very nicely. Later I swapped in a 9" Ford rear axle with 2" lowering blocks to get the gear ratio I wanted, better brakes and the ride height angle (approx. 3 degrees down in front) I preferred.

In your case I'd recommend you step up for the dropped knuckles, disc brakes, shock relocation with gas-filled shocks and cut coils - and do the rear axle swap at the same time as the front end rework. You'll end up doing it anyway so you might as well do it now.

 

In the 70s it was air shocks or long shackles Man was I glad when those days died. https://www.bing.com/images/search?...cars+with+long+shackles&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

 

That was my very first thought, but the way the rear shocks are in a Plymouth made me think different. I was afraid they would push the rear end out, than lift the car. Read on the P15-D24 forum to use air shock to stiffen the rear, instead of a rear sway bar. I also didn't want it to look it came out of the 1970s.

 

Did another search on Google of Plymouths. I found one of a Business Coupe sold in 2019 at auction that really stuck out.



More of what I picture in my head of the final product?

 

1 coil cut in front, 2" block in the rear with the smallest leaf removed from the pack. Didn't change the shock mounts in front, still rides like a boat...
205/65/15 front
235/60/15 rear

 

You really should read a book on suspensions before you start. If you don't, you will likely end up with a cool looking stance and a crappy driving car. There is quite a bit to take into consideration, if you want it to drive well. For starters, the unequal length tie rods are a problem.

 

Thank you @rockable for the info, do you have a book you would recommend?

 

This one will have some OT approaches , as well as traditional. Most importantly, it contains simple explanations. I probably have half a dozen books I've accumulated over the years but the principles remain the same. In order to drop that front AND have enough travel and compliance, you should start with dropped spindles (regardless of the style front suspension you choose.) You need to have adequate travel and compliance with small changes to camber and toe to have a good riding and driving suspension. Caster has to be set at a good compromise for your setup. Good luck!

 

I see you have the typical HAMB problem. Everyone wants you to lower the entire car, and they are ignoring what you say you want.

I told you how to go about lowering the front end using the process you wanted, keeping the original suspension with a shock relocation.

Now you want more wheel showing on the rear, and you bring a picture showing the way you want the car to sit. OK!

First up, adding any lowering block will do just the opposite of what you want, lower blocks will tuck the wheel farther up under the fender. Any one telling you to add lowering blocks isn't listening to you. To get the rear look you are after, you need to have more space between the axle and the body, not less.

Then, if you want to see more wheel, you need a smaller diameter wheel. You would see more wheel with a 14" wheel then with a 15" wheel, and you would see more tire and wheel with a 15" wheel then with a 16" wheel. The 16" wheel is going the opposite direction for what you want. 16" wheels will lift the rear bumper, but the more of the tire and wheel will disappear under the fender.

Next, on the picture of the car sitting the way you want, look at the curve of the rear spring in front of and behind the rear tire. See the huge curve of the spring? About the only way to arch the springs that much is to have air shocks, or air bags between the spring and the body. It may be possible to put that much arch into a pair of leaf springs, but I doubt they would last long, and I have to wonder if your old springs would take that much arch. That car probably doesn't drive worth a crap, but if that is the look you are after, add a pair of air bags between the body and the spring. Then at least you can bleed off some air out of the bags to drive it, and air them back up when its parked.

Another option you won't like, but I'll say it anyway. You can cut the existing wheel arch off of the fender and raise it up an inch or two, the have it welded back on and body finish the fenders. Presto, more tire and wheel showing, and you don't have to mess with the car's suspension. My son had a 47 Plymouth coupe we did that with, gives you more tire clearance too. You can still use your Dodge trim, just raise it up a bit more on the fender, your going to drill holes to mount the trim pieces on the fenders anyway.

I've built 6 of this era Plymouth and Dodge cars over the years with everything from stock suspension to front clips to full frame replacements. I've been under a few of them. Gene

 

@rockable Thanks for the book suggestion.

@gene-koning Thank you for sticking with this thread and being patient. I appreciate all of the advice and tips you are suggesting. I am just try to have a conversation and learn things, nothing is set in stone. The more I discuss the more I learn I don't know. These Plymouths are totally different animals than what I played with before ('60-'70s MoPars and Chevys and a '47 Ford). There are very few P-15 Plymouth in our area. The ones I have seen, in person, are stock, or heavily customized (slammed to the ground or tail draggers), nothing wrong with it just not my thing on the later. I have not seen in real life an exact example of how I think the car should sit. So, maybe be after all the discussion it not possible in the limits I set upon myself ($ and knowledge). There is going to have to be compromises made, just trying explore. Lowering the front seem the best option, raising the back doesn't seem to have as much of a payoff. The only true fact after looking at pictures of cars it looks like my suspension is tired needs replacing.

 

Can you specify which one of the keyboard experts did not suit you??

 

Nope. Not my intent to cause any friction, just a friendly bit of advice to a newcomer that much of what is offered as technical information here on the HAMB is pure bullshit...and that he should be wary of taking such advice too seriously.

 

That looks good, I would think 2" drop in the front, nothing in the rear, with fresh or 1" taller re-ached leaves, 15" stock wheels and 6.70-15 stock tires would be a good place to start
My '48 coupe is 1 coil cut from aerostar springs, and 1" blocks in the back, on saggy old leaves.


I would relocate that lower spring perch (I wish I had seen that before I lowered my car) and try cutting 1/4 coil from aerostar springs first. My set up doesn't have but 1.5" between the bumpstops, and I hit them if I go over much at all.
Just fresh shocks and the aerostar springs ride pretty well blasting around town, feels better than I remember my old '64 comet.
I am going to relocate the shocks down the road, but am not in any hurry.

 

Way, way in the past I remember some of the guys using shorter spring shackles to LOWER their car. Could not the OPPOSITE be done to raise the back?

Ben

 

This was my old 48 with a fully rebuilt stock front suspension with the exception of a Rusty Hope front disc brake set up and one coil cut off the front spring. Would rather have gone with the dropped spindles but at the time I did the front end they were just not in the budget. Always planned to add dropped spindles and relocate the upper shock mount later but sold it before I got to that point. It did also have lowering blocks in the rear which I understand that you do not want.

The car rode and drove well after a good alignment. Part of that was the fact that I rebuilt the rear springs adding new bushings and sliders between the leaves while I was at it. Never had an issue with it bottoming out but then I never drove it on really bad roads either.

While you have your front end apart make sure you put a new insulator between the steering box and frame. You would be surprised how much that box will move during steering with an old worn out insulator which translates to sloppy feeling steering.

 

Not sure about keyboard experts I share my experience.

The o/p wanted to not use dropped spindles or disc brakes. The modifications on my ‘46 were repeated on my ‘51 except no spring cutting, had some weaker springs, sits right with 5 3/4” frame clearance. Wouldn’t have done it on a second car if it didn’t work for me

Definitely would not recommend lifting the back to see more wheel. The rear fender opening is too low - a design problem - not a suspension problem. Air shocks and sway bars have different purposes on rear suspension. Raising it up will not help the handling.

 

Thank you for reminding me. I still need to order the insulators. @hkestes everytime is see pictures of your engine I start drooling! Beautiful!

Thank you for the tip.

 

Ride height changes alinement big time Be sure and get it to an alignment shop. That is why el caminos came with air shocks so with a load you could level them up. True story for a while I worked for Sears in Tulsa doing alignments I aligned a 68 El camino and he put on new tires came back in a week and was he mad. Tells me he wore of the tires going to Dallas. I look at the tires and they look good. He said he put on a new set in Dallas I ask did you get it aligned he said no. So he wore out a set of tires going but not coming back. My question did you air the shocks up answer was no. Big load going but not coming back.

 

Gary Meadors car should be your blueprint.




And another great thread. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ge-plymouth-mopar-only-picture-thread.752126/

 

That sits like a 4wd truck!

 

For sure, it was done all the time!

 

@sunbeam Thanks for the air shocks tip. Yes, alignment is on the to-do list.

@Tman Thanks for the MoPar link. I gotta see if I can find something less truckish...lol! I will now go back in the corner and lay by my dish!...haha

 

Don't '42 rear fenders have a more round arch and bolt onto the post-war p15s? Maybe seeing more rear tire isn't a a suspension solution

 

57 posts and nobody has...
Well, someone's gotta say it

HOW DO I GET A NICE RAKE ON A '47 PLYMOUTH?

You stop off at Home Depot...then with some Bunji cords,..

 

You guys are really slipping. Figure I would have seen that with get a Ford or Chevy a lot sooner...lmao.