How is the economy affecting hotrodding?

I think the economy is great.

Rather than be like most people and pissing it all away as fast as possible when things were hot, I saved it.

Now, I have money and everything's on sale.

 

The economy goes up......and the economy goes down.....then it goes up....etc. etc.

As long as you understand this, you will be better prepared to make good decisions.

The there is always the fact that some people do not understand that you cannot spend more then you make. It would seem obvious, but it has always surprised me how many of these people there are.

If it is any consolation, I usally feel any downturn in the economy immediately. This time I am the busiest I've ever been. I think that most people are not as paniced as the media would like for them to be. Maybe they are finding out that today's newscast might not reflect reality.

 

There is a fundamental rule of economics: you can not borrow yourself to prosperity.

Live within your means and the slowing economy will only be minor inconvenience to you. You may not have as much disposable (read that hot rodding money) income, so you have to slow down a bit. Do not give up and go away, just focus your priorities. I still drive my poor gas mileage old cars because that is a sacrifice I make, it is worth it to me.

If you have to, stop getting all those extras you can really do without: cable TV with 378 channels, eat out less, etc. Get an extra job or do something to make extra money so you can still spend on your hot rod.

The economy is what you make of it.

 

I agree with Deuce! Also with 53Sled for the most part. There are exceptions, especially for those hit hard by non insured medical, but for those who selectively dug their own holes I agree that they need to deal with it and move on.

This year with many of the cost of living increases we have experienced and will continue to experience, I will probably cut back on a lot of hobby outlays. Have obligations that must come first, like food, shelter, clothing, health care, and college expenses for our daughter. Any expendable income left over will go towards keeping our sanity.

 

Some great observations here.I for one,never even had a credit card until I was in my mid thirties.Hard to live with out one now,so I make it buy me plane tickets through rewards programs.(In fact,I used one of those tickets to by a car off of the HAMB!).I have my bank pay it by direct pay.I've seen lots of people go in the hole big time by using the card to live on. You ever watch a guy check out at an auction with 5 different cards?
Americans are some of the worst savers around. Granted there is splash back on innocent parties by the current situation. What I have a problem with is the Goverment stepping in and shoring up lots of things. This happened in Japan in the 90's and it took for ever to work it out of the system.Let markets take care of things.Its brutal but fast.Right now,we are bailing out lots of people who couldn't read fine print or thought they were going to get rich by buying up numerous houses.A lot of the current situation has been caused by little over sight of the mortage industry.They sold their paper off to others and got it out of their hair.I read an article about the number of politicians who had accepted donations from the mortage industry.Starting at the top Big W took in around 1/2 million in contributions.Lots of money thrown around at State level as each state has its own regulations.
In the 90's we told developing nations to keep their financial transactions transparent.Now with the advent of the 21st century, we are taking a fall for lack of transparency.
How does this affect my hot-rodding/motorcycling? It makes me enjoy it more because it get my mind off of all the dumb sh*t around me.

 

Being kinda on the poorer side,
I've always thought of hot rodding as an investment,
and usually relay this to both customers and friends into the hobby.

There are certain cars/models that will always be more collectible/desireable than others,
-everyone knows 'em by now or should -

These take the same amount of work to build as an oddball car.
Not to say oddball cars aren't cool,
but when it comes time to resell,
it will be both easier and at a higher price.
(as long as its a decent build too)

TP

 

I know a lot of folks on here are bikers, too. I can't believe how many low-mileage big-buck Harleys are on the market, being sold off by gold-chainers who can't justify a $20k bike they ride once or twice a month. It looks like by summer you could save $5 - 6k off year-ago prices. Not a bad lick considering they get 40+ mpg, too.

 

I don't think the future is as bleak as you might think. Deuce Roadster hit the nail on the head. It may seem like all doom and gloom but it's really not.

Here's a few rays of sunshine to think about.

Sure China is growing bigger and competing for natural resources and whatnot. But as they grow, so does their appetite for consumer goods. You know what the best selling car model is in China? Buick. Buick is a real status symbol brand in China and they even have some cool V8 RWD stuff that we don't even get.

Also, guys in China and Mexico and other countries like them love their piece of dirt as much as we do here in America and western Europe. And eventually they're not going to want their companies dumping plating chemicals into the rivers and working for pennies a day. We went through it 100 years ago, they're going through it now.

My point? It may seem like an unfair playing field now, but things will and always do change. I personally don't think things are bad right now and I have only good visions for the future. Let the banks that gave out all the bad loans fail, let the price of old cars drop until people realise what a great deal they are and start buying again. What goes around comes around.

 

fuck it lets ride.... 2048 there may be no gas left!!! what will we complain about then???the cost of electricity?? or used grease from robertos taco shop????live for today, cruising my chevy is the greatest feeling...especially long trips.. so for now im paying no matter what the cost is.......

 

Scrap is so out of hand, I couldn't buy a single car at an auction Saturday. Like 5 of those desirable Kaiser bumper guards going to scrap. Cars were garbage. If I could have had them kept there until April 2nd.. but the property changes hands on the 1st.

eBay is getting to be a bad place to sell anything, too. It's just been dead there the last six weeks or so.

 

This quote pretty much sums up my feelings about Australia. Our interest rates have risen from 6.4% to 8.7% in about 2 years, here they blame the American economy??? Stuffed if I know

Best news here is that the Australian dollar now buy $US0.93 up from around $US0.79 not 12 months ago. I am so looking forward to my US holiday in August as I am sure I will get a bargain.

 

That's a point that it seems a lot of people are missing. How many manufacturing jobs have been lost in the U.S. this year alone? 65,000+ in one month?

Mortgages? Sure, it's tough when one half of a couple loses their job and suddenly the mortgage is due and they can't make it. What about when BOTH lose their jobs? I live in a town of about 14,000 people (I think they're overestimating a bit) that has lost 1100+ manufacturing jobs over the last 3 years - from one company! When they closed last year, people were bemoaning the fact that 600+ jobs were being lost, never mentioning the 500+ that were cut over the previous couple of years. I was one of the workers who lost out there. $2 an hour is a healthy cut to take, take away the overtime that was always there, and it's even worse.

The media aren't the only ones behind the economic downturn. We are doing this to ourselves, and the big businesses are playing along too. We want things cheaper, they move the manufacturing off-shore to accomodate. We keep buying.

Oil prices are going up - so we're catching up, very slowly to what the rest of the world pays. It's time to deal with it, and make adjustments.

That's my $.02, and probably not even worth that.

Tim D.

 

I'm certain it wasn't all about that one pass. Try to do a theme park for less...yeah right. Sounds like a responsible spend to me, as in quality of life.

As far as the topic and living in ones means, also right. It seems like most of the people I know aren't running from the foreclosure devil. Heard a few stories but nothing I can see in front of me, noone I know directly. So how it effects the hobby from my personal view is that the ones with long dollars are now playing hard and playing smart. I can see the big ticket stuff on a massive rise right now. Even got inside a few decent deals with some heavy players again. There's always a speculator lurking in the shadows. While TV may indeed get some to think and be greedy it's not everything. The cost of petroleum products has really put the shitboots to many things and to the few of us who drive a lot throughout the work week. I have to hustle and think through what I'm working on but my investments in our stuff comes from my hands. I don't have to pay to build and that's more of a minority than most of you may think.

I heard an analysis about the last few years of the stock market and the overall view is actually up more than down. One analyst blamed the interviewer and his collegues for the down-turn in things due to fear being a good seller. I mean, I guess my tires last longer since things are bad, I'll never need a major appliance again since it'll last forever, and my clothes and shoes will also last near a lifetime. Why? Because, we're in a recession and we can't spend anything. It's true. I heard it on TV.

Supply and demand...demand quality American made goods. Demand lower fuel costs by buying as little fuel as possible while prices are up. Clear up as much debt as you can. And turn off your TV. That way the economy has zero effect on our hobby due to taking control of our lives and not playing into the hype and fear. In my view most of us here seem to think in a similar way. Wow, this is a kool place, huh?

 

I didn't read every thread on here, but here's my take on it.

More work done on the cars, use the parts I got already. Maybe drive a little less, to closer car events. Just ride it out til the economy picks up again.
We got top-dollar for the 74 Nova last fall, that was good timing!

We live debt-free in our house, it aint that hard if you never fall in that hole.

When the economy-stimulus check comes in, it gets spent on 100% AMERICAN STUFF. NO FLAT-SCREEN TV'S in my house this year. We're either going with solar hot water system, or have the 50 Burb upholstery done.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lTXEWh2yT_g

 

Exactly.

Times couldn't be better for me and I just bought a house a year and a half ago. Wished I would have waited till now, because I would have gotten more for the money, but we bought the right way. We got a low FIXED interest rate well within our means. I worked a lot of OT last year ( almost doubled my base salary ) but we still based our bills on a 40 hour week. That way everything extra is for investments or spending. This has allowed me to put $25k back into the house over the last year. I got an $8,000 Trane HVAC system for $6300, because of this so-called recession, with a sale and rebates.

I have some friends that are WAY overextended, using all of their OT as their base for bills. Some can't afford window curtains now as the OT has dried up. Some make a six figure salary and are losing their homes, due to balloon loans. They could have afforded a nice rambler or small Cape Cod, but just HAD TO HAVE that $700k waterfront house. I don't have a lot of remorse for these people. The stupid ones with balloon loans, and the ones who financed more than the house is worth, are being punished right now.

The only ones I feel a little sorry for are some of the first-time homebuyers. Buying a home can be a confusing process and some were so hungry to buy, that they were led in the wrong direction by greedy agents and builders. However, for every one of those, there are probably 5-10 people trying to compete with the Jones' and buy more material crap than they can afford.

A lot of the soccer moms, in the area, ( with one kid and a diesel Excursion that commute 75 miles a day ) are starting to bitch. I have no remorse for them either. They should have stuck with the Honda or Kia, which is all the yuppie wives really needed.

A guy at work says that Americans suffer from "magnumitis" and it's true. They all want the biggest, fastest, badest and coolest in their neighborhood. They want to be the envy of all their friends and neighbors. And a lot of times they make really shitty financial decisions, just to compete. Well, they're being punished now too.

This is what I think really sets the TRUE hot rodder apart. It's about doing things the way YOU want that make YOU happy. It's about making due with what you have to work with. It's about spending your money on things that make YOU happy. This year you will see a lot of the wanna-bes fall by the wayside. Some of them are already trying to sell their cars, in our area, so they can keep their houses. The same decisions that enabled them to buy these, turn key / already built hot rods, are causing them to lose them now.

 

Anyone watch Barrett-Jackson this last January?
They have been riding the wave over the lastfew years too.
Their bubble got burst this year.
At times it was almost funny to watch the auctioneers pleading for more money.
"C'mon folks this is a million dollar car." ( Craig Jackson )
NOT THIS YEAR PAL. It ( fully restored Duesenberg) sold for about $600k.
Most of the cars went for 1/2 to 1/3 what they did last year.
Even this year Ron Pratte ( Real estate mogul ), who has spent about 15-20 million over the last three years, only bought about 1 million worth.
It'll be interesting to see which sellers are brave enough to list their cars in Jan 09.
I'm not a big fan of some of the car styles, or the prices, but the auction is a good way to look at some old cars.

 

Yep, DR I have to agree with you but I think your opening line is incorrect. We are getting to a point were our manufacturing base is very weak and some Ind are just gone forever. We're also getting to a point were trade is killing our good wage Job market and turing it to a low wages.
I can't speak for anyone but our chicagoland area is getting hit hard in Manufacturing job losses and just make me shiver to think about our freinds in MI,OH. We can't buy goodies (new,used ,swapmeet or boneyard) for our Hotrods if the "Extra" income is just not there. We're a Manufacture and have seen our Old customers have no choice to go to the evel China shop. You can't compete when your paying more for Everything (steel,labor and overhead)to do the job. You know its a giant pyramid and all the jobs lost in our shop just snowballs to the other shops below us that supply our boxes,steel,freight,grinding,heat treating,plating,tooling ect... Job losses and lower wages because of the trade imbalance are giving us this recession.

 

That's probably the best statement I've heard in years, and the most true.

 

I mostly drag race, and I'm taking this year off. Fuel for the tow rig is too expensive. I don't really have any other option.

But what I WOULD like is for someone to tell me what the next foolish-investment-to-get-bailed-out is. Because this time I want in.

I DIDN'T invest in risky speculative bond derivatives or mortgage backed securities, I have conservative investments.

I DIDN'T take out a risky adjustable rate mortgage, I got a fixed 30-year even though it cost more.

Now all those people that were foolish and greedy are being bailed out by MY tax money, and me and all of you that act prudently and try to live within our means are sitting here like CHUMPS. This is bull.

 

Bee-lee-dat.

I am putting an offer on a house today to rent out.

 

well lets see.... I parked my new big block Chevy truck and drive a lil shit box Toyota truck, just to save some money for my "A"ttitude. I still plan on driving the A every day, and getting a personalized environmental plate that says "8 MPG" for it.

 

The prime interest rate has been lowered a good bit in the last year to year and half. Smart folks are re-financing at the NEW LOWER rates and saving big money. A 2 per cent decrease in a loan rate on a 125 thousand dollar loan equals BIG savings over the years. Some folks I know re-financed their loans but kept the same payment That took 4 to 6 years off the previous existing term of their loan They went from 27 years to 22 years. That's 5 years sooner that the home is paid for.

 

DR: I did refi to 15 years and 2-1/8% less, forgot about that.

But I think my point is still valid.

 

I see the "Davis" you're referring to is selling his entire collection in a few weeks! I think he knows the pissing contest is over for a while. And I agree with you completely.

 

Aint got no mortgage,never bought a new car/truck/motorcycle,dont give a shit about the Jones',never tried to "keep up" with em.good points have been made in this thread,now if those that need to would listen,and take heed,this piss and whine festival can come to a close.

 

Maybe "Finished"/ running driving cars are still going for a decent price.
Check out this gem. I mean maybe the guys friends were bidding this up but COME ON!!!! it's a POS and at over 19K the reserve still isn't met?



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...PageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006#ebayphotohosting

 

First, thanks to the administrators for letting this OT thread run. It's good advice for all of us and that's why we're all here. I seem to kill threads, but I'll add a lttle about the actual question which was the affect on the rodding hobby, which I know something about.

Dennis 4x4 and I have been in the hot rod "industry" for a long time and he is right, this hobby has weathered many resessions and booms. I call it "Nitro Madness" - smart guys will skip dinners out or moving up in real estate so they can fund the next project, new wheels or a faster race car. But I've also seen a lot of good businesses go belly-up cause the owner decided to go racing on his own money.

There some things very different about the present situation though. Most important; the aging of the "market" (that's me and a lot of you guys). The inescapable truth is, we ain't gonna need any hot rods in assisted living or Great Hereafter. And that's only about 10 to 15 years from now for thousands of us. Just go to an NSRA event and look at all the old fat guys sitting in lawn chairs. That's when cars will be really cheap!

2. I am conviced that the explosion of hot roddding for the past 20 years has been funded primarily through "empty nester's" credit cards, paid-up life insurance funds and home equity loans. Some argue that it was the 1-800-parts industry, but markets tend to fulfill demand, not create it.

As far as having 12 (or 11) deuce grills on the wall, or whatever stash of currently high dollar tin you're holding? Don't confuse luck with genius. Yes, they were always desirable, but not worth the stupid money that has been chasing stuff lately. Remember the Ferrari boom/bust in the 90's? And the "brass cars" that led the markets in the 60's have lost big real-value since then. (See my post above).

I'm glad for the "Street Rod" (the correct term) boom because it has put my kids through good schools and paid my mortgage, but I am also cautious about the future. Well run rod businesses with strong Brands will continue to do well. Bad managers and marginal products will begin to struggle as the easy money dries up.

And yes, (OT) it also pisses me off that the fuckin' hedge fund millionairs and mortgage "paper" shufflers will get bailed out by us working stiff tax payers.
And don't forget that many more people lose their homes because of lay-offs and medical bills than from buying more home than they should have.

Party on!

 

fixed rate interest rates are the only way to be safe.....

variable rate is gambling that you will lose out on if you stay around too long !

most of these people probably could not really afford the houses when they bought them and once the interest rate went up were on a downhill path.....

 

I think the the "recession" (CNN) that we are in will not necessarily hurt hot rodding...it will just put it on hold for a few years. My parents are in the cattle business and when the prices go down, they hang on to the cattle until the price goes back up. A lot of times the price goes up a lot more than what they paid for them per pound in the first place. sure you may have more in upkeep costs and things...but it will all even out in the end.