folks, i've been wanting so badly for my T modified to have a banjo 'cause they look so cool. to the extent that i've bought 3 of them (bought one, then found a better one, then found an open drive pick up). some of my close and trusted friends have advised me against putting one behind my nailhead, though. i know deep down inside that they're right, of course; that a 401 will probably rip up a banjo. or a qc. even if it's converted to late axles, etc. here's the question: what's the most horsepower, or most torque, or biggest engine you've ever sucessfully put in front of a ford banjo rear? or a qc using the ford ring/pinion, axles, etc. i mean to be able to thrash it hard, even on the dragstrip, without shelling it? and were you using original ring/pinion & axles or was it converted to something else? another question: i think i've found a good early bronco 9". is that the way to go or does someone out there have a better suggestion? note; i'll be using 5 on 5 1/2" bolt pattern. i'm about ready to start building the frame and want to settle this before i start cutting/welding. tia; ain't the hamb great?
Use the 9". a stout flathead can rip up a banjo. The weakness is in the axel keys. The R&P ain't to tough either.
i was wondering the exact same thing when i looked under the evil ford coupe. blown injected hemi, with a qc..hmmmmm
With the amount of low-end grunt a 401 can stuff into the driveline, a banjo rear would be like using Post-Its for hand-holds on a climbing wall. You'd have to go all the way to a Champ rearend to contain a seriously torquey motor, which the 401 is. If you have an early Ford truck 9-inch available, that would be a good choice. (My early six-cylinder Bronco (in the early '70s) had a Dana 44. I never made much of a study of them, so it's very likely that the V8-equipped Broncos had 9s under them.) Save those Ford banjos for another project, like a super-traditional lakes modified with a flatmotor . . .
Atch, it depends on the year of banjo. I have banjo's in 3 cars, and I have had to fix them on multiple occaisons. The bottom line is to stay away from '32 banjos 'cause they have no pinion straddle bearing and just expect that you will have to work on them. By the way, I would recommend the '37-'40 banjo if you go that route. Reggie
The Roadster I had before my Tupperwhare one(when the top is up it seals in the freshness) Had a built 322 with 3-2's and a big cam and outside headers. Anyway all the time I had it I broke the trans twice, blew one clutch and broke the solid driveshaft. I'm still amazed at the shaft breaking. But I never did break the rearend. I was certian from the day I put that car on the road the first thing to bust would be the axel keyways. So with a 401 like you are talking.....I wouldn't gaurentee anything not to break. But it will be fun doing so.
fwiw - i've got '41 & '46 car rears & '46 or '47 truck rear. this assumes that they were the original rears in the vehicles they were taken out of.
Hey Atch, I think I might even have the Banjo out of Clarence! I know I got the front brakes! There on the 40 coupe. If you like banjo's, run one man! Do what you like. I would agree that you are more likey to shear an axle key or shell the trans. Its going to have alot to do with the tires.... and the way you drive this beast. Breakin stuff ain't all that bad. Its traditional!! -------------------------------------------------------- "OPOSSUM BENDERS" Central Missouri Chapter
Some of the MORE SENIOR fellows I know (do not want to call anybody OLD..... ) say that a Flattie is harder on a Banjo than a SBC. I believe it. My old 283 SBC powered 40 Ford coupe still has a Banjo rear. Honest Charley sold hardened keys ($5 a pair in 58) and my 40 came from that part of Tennessee so I believe it could have them. I love Bronco 9" rears. Have one under my 32 Roadster. With a torquey motor..........the Bronco looks like a safer bet......
visor, hope those brakes are stoppin' the '40 ok. clarence is a '48, though, and '47 was the last truck banjo. ed has the rear out of it. i think he is going to use the axles out of it to retrofit a banjo or something. maybe he wanted the brakes off of it. i can't remember.
Question for ya Atch, If you run a 9" will you put the spring on top or behind the rearend? And where would you get the brackets/mounts? Not trying to hijack your post just thinking about doing the samething. Thanks MP
mp, the current plan is to use aftermarket psi radius rods. i think these look a lot like 35, 36, or 37 ford, but are heavier duty. i'm not sure, but i think these things were made in the 70's or maybe 80's. i found these at a swap meet many years ago. they are nos; never been on a car or finish welded. apparently you got the bungs and tubes and welded them together yourself. they were the first pieces i purchased to use on this car after i bought the body. i now have accumulated just about all the other pieces i need. anyway, they have the spring mount behind the axle, i think. i'll have to look when i get home (i'm at work now). they bolt to the axle with a tab i'll have to fab up and weld to the axle. the tab i'm envisioning will be a ring all the way around the axle with two holes to line up with the holes in the radius rods. the ring i'm thinking needs to be fabbed out of about 3/8" steel, have the same inside radius as the outside of the axle tube, and the outside radius about 3/4" larger. i'll have to make it up in two pieces and weld them together on the axle, otherwise i'd have to cut the axle tube ends off and then reweld them. i think if i do a good job, make good welds, and do a nice grinding job that they will both look right and be strong. all that said, these radius rods probably will be the weakest link in the entire suspension/drive train if i use a 9". the banjo would be the weakest if i go that way (which i probably won't). maybe, now that i think i've decided to go 9" instead of banjo, i need to rethink these radius rods, too.
Are thinking about something like these http://www.peteandjakes.com/media/pdf/Page_47.pdf buggy spring mounting kit I want to put a 9" in my channeled A-sedan but I want to run the spring on top of the axle. I figure I'll have to Z the frame a little and run a reverse I spring and hope it's low enough. Someone told me to find a 35 rear wishbone to split. The only problem I'm having is finding mounts for the spring (buggy to 9"housing) and wishbone. Do you know if theres a place to get these or do I have to fab them. I can make them if I see an picture. Thanks MP
Had a 46 Ford coupe back in early 60s had a J-2 Olds mated to a truck stick 3spd, closed driveline, original banjo. Never broke banjo but sure broke a lot of driveshafts. Broken driveshafts make good pry bars, fence post tamping tools, etc.
mp, the radius rods i have actually look a lot like split 35 wishbones. i guess i didn't make that very clear. they have the spring hanger built in. the spring hanger part looks sort of like the right half of the two biggest pieces in the lower left corner of what you're showing, and sticks out past the rear of the axle tube. the bracket i described would look like the other half of the same two pieces except that it would have a couple of protrusions with holes drilled in them that would match the two holes in the psi pieces. if i can remember it i'll take a pic when i get home and post it, but right now i'm at work and have been for over 16 hours and i have to be back here in a little over 8 hours. and i don't even know yet when i'll get off tonight. it might be a couple of days. i mean a couple of days before i post pix; not before i get off work...
Atch, I ran an early Bronco 9" in my 32 roadster. It was a good width, had the 5 on 5 1/2 bolt pattern and was a 350 gear posi unit. I got the entire setup drum to drum for $100. I will post pictures of my 26 modified within a week. I am using a model A rear crossmember and model A spring. I was going to use a 8" but the 8" and 9" pumpkins are off center. It didn't look good. I also struggled with the decision on the banjo. I will drive my car alot and hard and want to be confident. I went with a 69' Mopar B body rear end. It is 59.5" drum face to drum face and a really smooth pumpkin in the center. It's an 8 3/4 with a 355 gear. These rear ends and the International wheels 15 & 16" are still available here in Rural Mo. I am using early 50's International pickup wheels on the rear. They are 5 on 4 1/2 but accept the early ford snap in hub caps. I will give you my 46 banjo if you want to come down to Rolla to get it.Also, thanks for your help on locating a pith helmit at the surplus store. Turns out that I got one from a coworker.I also designed my own spring behind the front axel setup which you will see when I post the pictures. I am running 46 front wishbones for both the front and the rear axel mounting.I made my own rear end mounting brackets from 3/8 steel and welded them into the wishbone tubes. Come get the rearend and I'll show you what I've done. Hope this helps. Sam
Atch, a little history - not much - and a suggestion. The fastest car in my town back in the good ol daze was a Desoto powered five window deuce coupe. Running lots of good stuff. Which I think you may be able to read about in the pic below. Anyhow, the coupe ran 102 mph in the mid-low 13's. Later on it ran 105 and just touched on the 12's. It's last iteration was with the largest Desoto, built pretty strong, Packard floor box, Halibrand quick change rear and the hard maybe 8" wide slicks of the day. A little interpolation shows the coupes engine was making about 225-250 honest HP. Honest at least in that's about what a dyno would have shown. Far as I know, I don't think he ever broke anything in the drive line after the Packard box & QC install. He did break the early iteration of the car when running a 39 Ford box, but I don't think anything in the rear broke. All that said, I'd opt for the Ford 9" for peace of mind, not to mention I have several carriers for them. If not, I'd look hard at the Chryco 8 3/4" rear axle. It looks good and is plenty sturdy. One small thing to keep in mind that a lot of driveline breakage comes from an engine not strong enough to spin the tires. Once the tires grab and bog the engine - which still has inertia - things let go in the driveline dept. The same driveline will live behind a bigger and stronger engine cuz the spinning tire is a bit of a safety valve. Far as the radius rods go, why not set the radius rod proper up with a pivot - polyurethane bushing - at both ends and use it as the lower bar of a four bar? The upper bars can be shorter and should be easy to hide from the view of most. I run parallel equal length four bars on my 32 and they work well for the street. It squats a bit on hard acceleration, but it's not a problem as I don't spin the tires on the car. Well ... once I did, but you had to be there.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MP33, SoCal makes a very nice bracket for the Ford 9" and similar sized rear axles. It does hang the spring behind the axle, but perhaps it could work for you.
Hey Atch, if you decide to go with a 9" I have a 9" posi unit you can have. It probably needs a new Clutch Pack in it, but It does have new Bearings on it. I bought it to put in my old Truck, but before I got around to putting a Clutch pack in it I got a deal on a Detroit Locker and used it instead. If you want it, let me know. You're welcome to it.
mo & bftwcs - thanx and check for pm's. c9 - thanx for the info. still looks like a torquey nailhead might be too much, though. i'll probably never want to put any sticky 10" slicks on, but you just never know, do you? joe - i know it's a long way from you to nampa, but do you know any of these guys? i've heard of them for several years and they do seem to have a pretty good reputation. i just sent them an e-mail asking them how much hp a "converted" banjo will withstand, but i'm afraid they'll probably be really non-committal with their answer. i know i would be if i were them. anyways, if you know them maybe you could get a more honest answer than a stranger?
Only one I know is Ken. He was the U.S.R.I. president for a while. From what I've heard, I'd trust them if I had the money for their stuff. Closest I ever came to hitting a banjo with power was back in 69/72 when I had a 55 Nomad with a monster 427 and a Halibrand QC. I think it was the champ or the V8. Can't remember. Anyway the rear held just fine but that was probably because the slicks back then couldn't hold the HP without slipping a bit on the launch. The gears as I remember were like 4.11 one way and 5.88 the other or something similar. Used 1 way for 1/4 mile and the other way for the 1/8 mile. The rear was already in the car so I can't tell you much about it except it held up with the biggest slicks we could run in the tubs at the time. The QC rears have been used on the dirt trackers forever but then, they are on dirt and don't shock the keys like a drag car on a pavement launch. I was going to use an open drive banjo in the 31 coupe with the 276 flatty, but ran across a Dana 44 with a model A spring already mounted on it.
in agreement with c9 and others, on a 1500 lb car, you must be spinning the tires alot now anyways. just don't get one of those bolt on fakey QC covers though. tp
mp33 - here's a couple of pix of the psi units i mentioned. by seeing the pic you'll see exactly what i was talking about with the two bolts to mount the axle with. also the spring mount behind the axle.
and a closeup of the back part: (and please don't wind me up about fake qc's or olds valve covers on sbc, etc., we don't have the time):
AHH now I see what PSI radius rods look like,That should work out good. Thanks Mike. I think if I get some 35 bones I could cut the spring mount off and mount the rod like you are going to. Then mount the spring on top of the housing with some fabbed/aftermarket mounts. Today I picked up a 46 coupe front and rear suspension and was looking at using the rear bones somehow but I like your idea better. Thanks. At least now I got spindles. MP
I've got a '35 Banjo under my Flat-powered T. I used a Hot Rod Works open drive conversion and 5-speed GM trans. I was (still am) Bound an determined to break the rearend my 1st drive out. I can't do it!! Plenty strong. Even gettin rubber between all gears but 4th and 5th. If I do break it, I'll convert to modern axles for more strength as I plan a cam, heads, etc. for my Flathead.
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