How to dominate the car building business (RANT)

I really don't know what the OP is sweating about. Upholstery guy I used - one time - took over a year to start the job and then did a mediocre job. Considering I was referred by one of his best customers who had him do several multi million vintage Ferraris you would think he would give decent service. Guess next time I'll have to get me a Ferrari 250 GTO if I want it done in a timely manner....

 

All your experiences are typical - an artist often makes a lousy business man. But here's the other side...

I have good buddy that does great metal work. He tries to schedule the work so he can get right to it and get it out on time. But many of the guys he schedules also have excuses why THEY can't get the car to him on time and leaves him scrambling to find something to fill in (and provide income). So he sometimes has to double book in case one of the jobs no-show.

 

Over the years I have been privlileged to work for some very good businessmen from whom I learned a lot of lessons about the right way to do business. One of them was the owner of a body shop that he ran sucessfully for almost 30 years. He had some very strict rules about how we did things, for example:

1) He only did collision work. If you wanted a paint job or wanted to pay for the job yourself, he would not take the job. His entire focus was doing wrecks that insurance companies were paying for and to do other jobs would detract from what he did best. He felt that if he concentrated on one thing and did it well, that was the thing to do.

2) No car came in until I had every part laying there to fix it, and there was room in the schedule to start on it. Cars did not come in and lay there for a long time before someone began work. Most times cars came in on Monday and had to leave by Friday, unless it was a huge repair job. If we were going to need the car longer than what we promised, I was on the phone with the customer and doing whatever we could to make it ok.

3) He stood behind every job he did. If a customer came back with any problem it was not dismissed, he would personally make sure the customer was happy. For example, a lady came back and bitched because her car ran badly after we fixed it, so he sent it over to the garage we used for mechanical repairs. They found out the lady had not tightened the gas cap down after getting gas and that threw the computer off. He didn't charge her and didn't make her feel stupid, just took care of the customer.

4) No car left until he personally climbed over and under it. I have seen him in a white shirt and tie, laying on the ground, and telling the body shop manager that there were some bolts that were not painted on the underside of the car. He caught things even our most experienced body guys missed, and told me one time " My name is on every car that leaves here and I want it to be right."

It felt good to work for a business like that because you knew you were doing the best job for your customer you could do and that you could look them in the eye. So many businesses miss that point altogether.

Don

 

I'm just frustrated.
The price isn't going up; he's not making any more money for the job no matter how long it takes. I'm not paying by the hour (or week) and he hasn't even hinted at wanting more. And he seems like a genuinely nice guy, not shifty or shady, just can't seem to schedule for a damn.
Last time I was there he had a young kid helping him out who was listening very intently. I am HOPING that he will encourage the head guy to bring my car in next.
I'm going to drive by in about an hour and if the car is still sitting in the street I'm going to have a serious conversation with him. It's now or never; I ain't missing the Stray Kat 500 over this crap!

I will say this: up until now the only two things I paid anyone to do on the car was exhaust and glass. The exhaust they did while I waited and for a very good price. The glass was done faster than they said and at the quoted price, also a good price. So I know there are good ones out there, I just don't know how to spot them ahead of time. Asking other guys helps but doesn't seem to solve the problem!

 

See, that's all it takes! Professional attitude, professional behavior = success

 

I have to bring up a point that hasnt been brought up. Dont confuse a collistion shop with a resto/custom shop.Your car WIll sit at a collison shop untill they get slowand have nothing to do! I would only take in what I could work on at the time but these were long term full restos. I did have to do insurance work to make ends meet but for the most part i stayed on the resto/custom work. I would work by the hour on these. I IS impossible to look at a painted car and tell a customer what it will cost and how long it will take to redo the car. I would explain this. So I would strip the cars down and have a meeting with the customer on what needed to be done. STILL, you cant give a set price to fix the thing because every corn you turn you WILL find more wrong. I would try to get it close but then the customer would take that figure and deduct it to what they thought it should cost. I DO beleive in doing GOOD work in a TIMeLY manner but sometimes there are reason for delays and extra costs. It is not always the shops that causing the slow downs. I do think some shops are dead wrong but there are some good shops trying to make a living and do good work. Sometimes it is the customer with delusional ideas of time and cost, but not always. YOU aint gonna paint a car for 500 bucks in 2 days anymore.

 

These incompetant folks need to learn that a business IS a BUSINESS, not a gab fest for unemployeed "friends" to hang out in, not a hobby shop that you work when you get the inspiration, not an ongoing beer party for the neighborhood punks, not a perpetual car show of customer's vehicles that they're "working on", but a BUSINESS.
Work in, Work out, Payment, pay expenses, rinse and repeat.

You are looking at your situation through rose-colored glasses. Damn few of the shysters and crooks in the business world look or act like that is what they are. They just are what they are. Flim-flam men. You give them money...they keep it...

 

It works both ways though. I've worked in more than one shop that had to keep a car locked up inside after it was finished because the owner couldn't come up with the money to pay the bill and the car wasn't leaving before it was paid for. That was straight auto repair but too many guys take their rigs into shops without any idea of how they are going to pay for the work.

Still I think the main problem with a lot of those shops that take on work and then don't get it done is that they are afraid that if they don't take the car in then and there you will take it somewhere else to have the work done even though they know that there is no way that they can get it done in a timely fashion. A look around the guy's shop and lot should be a good indicator of how quickly the shop gets work done. If there are several half finished customer cars collecting layers of dust you can figure that yours isn't going to be done anytime soon.

 

Only collision work & most likely late model, you are not getting your hot rod in for a paint job or get a new floor welded in. Could also just as esily say " no hot rods & no customs & nothing fabricated = in & out = success"

 

Oh, and I forgot one other thing about the guy who owned the body shop. We could have 20 cars in there and he knew the status of each and every one at all times. He never sat in his office but was constantly walking around, keeping the body techs moving, and making sure things were being done right.

He would amaze me because I would walk up to him and say "I need to talk to you about the Mercedes" and he would say "The black one or the silver one?" He had his finger on the pulse of the business every second. Nothing escaped him.

I tell him every time I see him that I hold him up as an example of how business should be run.

Don

 

My old boss loved to "look" busy. It was his way of showing off to other shops. It was just him and myself, 3 indoor bays 2 out door, the 1 lift outdoor in front always had a nice car (usually one for sale with no sign). the lift out back was always a "friend of his" that needed a motor or tranny~usually a one month job for no pay.
1 lift in the rear was for high end long term storage or work.
That left 2...his bay and my bay. He would usually take in some weird car with a weird problem and tear it apart with no parts on order and would flip on the suppliers if they said anything other than "youll have it today"
that left me and my bay to do EVERYTHING on a daily basis...it got real old real quick!
People in town were always saying "you guys are always soo busy!"

Smoke and mirrors....

 

After 40 years in the autobody and restoration business I find many people do not know how to qualify if the repairer is the right fit for them and their car. Questions must be answered by both parties involved . How about : Tell me about the most difficult customer / car you have had to deal with . How did you resolve the difficulty ? When you are stumped with a problem who do you turn to for help and guideance? Can you provide a reference to a recent customer that has had similar work performed on their car ? What are the repair areas you excell in ? What repair areas are your weakest in ? Are you liscensed and insured ? How would you go about the repair of my car ? How often will I recieve work progress updates on my car ? What is your payment policy ? What repair / restoration / build are you proudest of ? Why ? Then be quiet until they give a detailed response. They should be asking you similar questions. If not your going to get a surprise .

You as the vehicle owner need to do a some research on how and what needs to be done and on the shop/repairer themself. How else will you know ahead of time if they have the skills and discipline to meet your needs ? Just because a friend referred a shop and was happy with the repair they did doesn't mean you will.

I understand your fustration with the repairer/ shop and your suggestion as to how one can better their image and reputation by following your ideas but good repairers will be following a guideline similar to your suggestions.

I dont mean any disrespect but I really believe you may not have done all the necessary homework to determine if they were the right repairer for your needs or you didnt see the warning signs. I mean just think about it for a minute or two. A one man show doesn't have as much flexability to recover from a illness or family event and meet a set delivery date . A guy with a day job working out of his garage at night can only spend so much time on a side job before some family or day job issue catches up to them. I would not find it surprising that there could be a greater chance of untimelyness or other difficulties in this type of arrangement. If your willing to accept these issues thats great but be aware they exist but remain hidden until forced into the open.

Hope things work out for you .

 

look at many auto repair type shops all over, most have cars sitting around their building. they maybe, just maybe, are good craftsmen. but, poor businessmen and cannot manage time or money. so, to pay today's bills, and buy material for whatever they are working on, they take your car in with a deposit. they spend your deposit today so, when your car is finally going to be worked on they take in another car(s) to pay for working on your car, etc. even with a set date to work on your car they will bump you again and take in extra work because they need more $$ now. wherever you learn how to do the mechanical aspect of car work you likely will learn all types of stuff except how to manage a business. of course something that screws up any time line is the current customer adds more work he wants done while you are working on his ride. or you start the work and find more problems than expected. of course, "friends" and Family enter the repair guys plans too. I am waiting (actually gave up waiting) right now for parts from a big name company that I paid Overnight Shipping for days ago. oh well, just don't stand facing into the wind when taking a piss.

 

I think we're at the same shop

From day one, all I ever asked was "when do you plan to be done?" I have NEVER said "I need it done by xx date," or anything that would insinuate that _I_ was setting the timeline. I was told "a couple of days." So, 5 days later, I called to find out what status was. "[Insert lots of meaningless excuses here]... I'll be done on Friday or Saturday. I'll call you on Saturday to let you know." No call. I called Saturday afternoon. Voicemail. I called again this morning. Voicemail. Called again about an hour ago. Voicemail. Called 2 more times (because, if he's really not there, a ringing phone won't bother him... but if he is, then answer the damn phone). He finally answered. [Insert lots of meaningless excuses here.] I reminded him that he was supposed to call me on Saturday, and that he continues to miss self-imposed timelines. I asked him if he wanted me to come get my stuff and look elsewhere or if he could set a realistic timeline for when he'll be done. He told me Wednesday. So, I'm going to hold my breath until then.

With the economy being what it is, I am CONTINUALLY stunned at how hard it is to find people willing to 1) do the work, period, and 2) be "good" at what they do. I've even contacted several Alliance Vendors about doing work-- one won't even bother to follow up with me like he said he would. The other kept pricing the SAME work higher and higher until he successfully scared me off. I'd love to tell you which vendors, but I'd surely be flamed as a detractor by their pals *sigh*

/my rant off... back to OP's rant.

 

I have definitely seen the other side of the equation.

A friend has an auto body shop. There is no money in restoration work, he lives on regular insurance jobs. He does awesome work and will take on a classic car as a favor and to help keep his emmployees working.

I have seen project cars sitting in his shop waiting for the car owner to delivery some parts or the car owner wants to install the wiring harness after the firewall was painted but before the fenders were install. Guess what, the car owner is too busy to stop by and do this.

I had been talking to him about painting my 57 chevy truck sometime when he was slow. I stopped by his shop to say hi, and he tells me to bring my truck down. I had to scramble to finalize a few things so I could get it too him. He had it done in a week and he had a lot of fitting and such to make it perfect.

 

This thread can be cut and pasted to more than just automotive businesses right now. Comanies are over committing right now to make up for a slow economy. I have cuz my contractors list in half because i cant keep waiting for someone to show up, I'll be damned if i lose clients over someone elses workload. I would bet the shop meant well when they took your car but how much business can they afford to lose due to upset customers? If you're too busy people will wait for service and quality.

 

They like to have cool cars sitting around the shop so other people see what a neat guy they are that all these other cool guys want them to work on their car so WOW I guess I'll take my car there!!!!!

 

I drove by over lunch. My car's still sitting. (I have NEVER let my car sit outside for a month before.)
I just called a couple minutes ago. He says it'll be done Thursday. If it is then I'll be happy. If it isn't, then I'll feel like even more of a sucker.

 

Don't feel so bad. Back in '05 I paid an upholstery shop up front ( something I don't normally do) for an interior on a Chrysler I had. Just recently at te time this shop had done some knockout work for several of the local fellas. it took me a year to get my seats back and I never did see a dime of the money in return. They just flaked on me and I guess several others the shop or the owner isn't anywhere to be found today.

 

Shops are selling a service and they will tell you exactly what you want to hear to get your car on the lot...maybe yank a fender off and then work on your car when the high dollar insurance work is all complete..I would never use a body shop unless they are willing to provide a contract stating completion date with penalties if they do not complete on schedule..tooo many nightmares out there

 

For some shops I think having cars sitting around waiting to be worked on = advertisement at someone else's expence

 

wait until you take it someplace and they drop it on their lift, than try to hide the damage,(after they beat on it) than after you catch the damage they try to tell you they took autoshop and can "fix" it..

 

Amen.

 

Ill add my rant to this....dropped a car off while I was home on leave from Iraq,asked him if he could get it done in 6 months(that's when I was getting back),nothing major,just new brakes all around and some engine work.He said it would be done by the time I got back.Got back and waited 6 additional months, had the car for a full year.I got fed up and picked it up and took the 3k loss.Now I trial and error my way as much as I can before Ill drop it off for someone to do work on any of my vehicles.

 

Let's not tar everyone with the same brush ,

if you have ever booked your car in for job 1 and then said could you do job 2 and 3 while you have it

If you have ever dropped off a car that needed work before the booked work could commence

If you have ever been told the wait is three months and then not confirmed only to turn up in three months and go here I am

Then you can f@*k right off , I get so much time wasted by idiot customers I hate threads like this . i bend over backwards to meet deadlines and keep customers happy , only to have them forget the cheque book or quibble over details that weren't in the agreement anyway

It's a two way street ask anyone who does this work

 

Then you should get out of the business, and I'll stop taking my vehicle to shops that treat me poorly. Sounds like a win-win. Nobody (that I can see) painted "bend over backwards" service with the same brush in this thread.

When you say you'll do something, and you don't... repeatedly... you should put yourself out of business before we do it for you. And if you don't, you deserve to be the subject of threads like this. From your one comment here, I'll give the benefit of the doubt that you don't operate this way.

 

I am sure that is all true - there are jerks everywhere - but EVERYONE has dealt with more dipsticks and crooks than honest guys who do good work in a timely manner.
You'll notice in my first post I said there's a mechanical repair guy here in town who has business up to his eyeballs because he won't let you bring your car until he's ready to start on it, and then jumps right no it. I'm sure he's had his share of idiot customers, too, but he somehow manages to not let cars sit for months at a time, untouched.

 

BTW, one of the best vendor shops I ever dealt with (custom HVAC) was a partnership; The craftsman didn't want to deal with customers and office work, and the other guy didn't want (nor have the skills) to do the fabrication work. So they trusted each other to handle what they were best at. Still in business today.

 

i just wish more of my customers had the dosh to see a job through...

 

You just saved me a bunch of typing ... I was about to post a similar example: a fabricator who was very talented, but always financially behind the 8-ball. Consequently, he never said no to smaller, quick & easy jobs that generated enough cash to make the week's payroll. As a result, the big jobs kept getting pushed to the back of the shop and the weeks stretched into months .....