Art & Inspiration How to put the project on a diet

While I wait for the builders to get the shop to a point where I can start working on the project, I started to think about how much weight I was adding with the big block. While I want the car to maintain it's basic stock appearance, how do I accomplish weight reduction without removing too much or things that would alter the stock image. What would or should I remove or alter to lighten the car. BTW, the difference in the stock 6 cylinder with the cast iron powerglide and the big block with the 700R4 is only 90 lbs.

 

Consider the total package- things like an aluminum radiator over the OEM brass/copper one, alternator vs generator, and the list goes on. Aluminum heads, intake, etc. can also pare it down. 90 lbs. is no big deal.

 

Aluminum water pumps are much lighter than cast iron, hanging off the front of the engine like that I'd say they make a difference.

 

Turbo 400 would save around 40 lbs.

 

What's your plan for use of the car? Does that extra 90 pounds actually matter?

 

The car will be used for street and strip. I'm thinking drag and drive type events. Lighter weight obviously helps on the track, but it should help with handling and fuel economy as well. The car should be in the 3300 lb range from the factory which seems a little over weight for a performance car. Weight distribution is always a though running through my mind with any vehicle I plan to drive in a spirited fashion. From what has been mentioned, I should be back to negative weight gain as the generator will be gone and I do have an aluminum water pump, intake, and heads. I'm wondering if moving the battery to the spare tire well would help with weight distribution and how much all that battery cable will add. My wife tells me if I'm worried about removing weight, I should go on a diet. Perhaps I should look at ways to make the interior quickly removable for drag and drive type events. hmmmm..

 

Seats, sound deadening, interior trim are all heavy.

 

If you're talking drag and drive it seems like there are two options there. do you want something fun and reliable you can do drag and drive with, or do you want it to be competitive? A competitive drag and drive car will probably be fairly miserable on the street and a big build. If you want to have fun and complete some drag and drives, focus on making it a street car that is kinda quick. Tom Stark's 55 Chevy is a good example of a fun street car that's quick enough to have fun, but has a nice full interior. For the record that car started as a car show cruiser with a 235 6-cylinder.

Some drag and drive guys lately seem to be going for a light battery and short cables.

 

Time and money. How much do you have to spend and what are the goals?
There were a group of guys that wanted a stock appearing race car. They created a fiberglass Pontiac Chieftain. Thing was amazing.

More realistic is to take each part, walk it over to some scales and decide if it's good to go or you can shave some off. It all adds up (or subtracts).

 

You're right, moving the battery can help. If it's 33 pounds, that's 1% of the vehicle's weight. A good chunk. Also, deleting the mechanical fuel pump in favor of an electric one in back moves a couple pounds. A relay off the battery right back there will help to deliver full voltage to it as well.

 

Magnesium wheels

 

Aluminum makes a big difference. When I was racing the 442 I added aluminum heads, intake, water pump, radiator, put the battery in the trunk, plastic inner fenders, aluminum gear reduction starter...that is a lot of weight off the nose of an Olds. Plastic hood would have saved another 100. Plastic bumper another 100, or more.

 

Both bumpers in fibreglass would knock off 70 pounds or so.

 

My original goal was a street car that could go down the track. The closer I get to that goal, the more I start thinking about being competitive. I guess my basic nature is to be competitive without being obsessive. I don't ever want to be to the point of if I can't win, I'm miserable. I would like the car to be respectable. As I can see goal creep in my future, I want to build the car with an eye towards where it might wind up. I try not to build it to the limit of what the parts can handle and that way there is room for future improvements. I don't think this car will ever see 4 digit horsepower, which is what it would take to be truly competitive. The current plan is change from 29" slicks to 26" slicks for 1/8 mile tracks as the current GM rear end will take more time than I would enjoy to switch the gears. that being the case, I have started to gather contingency parts such as a 9 inch in case I want to do more race and not as much drive since changing 3rd members is a walk in the park on a 9" and offers more options for tuning. I even went as far as pulling my Crower stack injection off the shelf and playing with what options would or wouldn't work if I use it. I have driven a similar setup on the street and the mechanical Crower is not exactly street friendly so it will probably not find a home in the 51. The competitive cars also use a whole lot of electronics and that is not only OT but quite pricey although it would give the Crower new life. For now if the car can hit anywhere in the 10s or maybe low 11s and maintain drivability, I think I'll be happy. Which is why any weight reduction that is legitimate and not overly extreme (think acid dipping the body), is worth considering before I build it. Once it is built, I will probably be hesitant to take it all back apart for a tenth or two.

 

Go on a diet!

 

Light weight buckets.....lose the back seat....Lexan windows....lose the radio and speakers... lose the heater...lose the inter fenders.....skinney front tires and Alum rims.... NITROUS !!!
6sally6

 

Fuel cell instead of original gas tank, lexan side glass, Can make quarter glass fixed and remove regulators. Plus all above posts

 

A 400 SBC with alloy "camel humps" and alloy "Holley street dominator intake" painted orange to look stock.
Add an alloy waterpump and radiator and the whole package will weigh less than the 6 cyl and glide.

Keep the 700R4 [or 4L60]

You can take a 400 SBC out to 434" relatively cheaply

 

I'd concentrate on planning to be competitive in a specific bracket rather than just winning and not seeing the full picture. These days I'd rather have a dead nuts reliable and fairly comfortable 12.5 car than a 9.5 car that I had to battle with.

 

Ah the "Dual Purpose" car bug. Boy I've been there, done that. I spent so much money chasing that, I couldda built a real race car and a decent street car, but nooo, not cool enough. Go buy an aluminum block. 120 lbs there. Take nearly every single piece off the car and saw a sliver off it, or hit it with the belt sander, or drill holes in it. Learn about carbon fiber and mold making. Buy lexan. Hire a pro tuner to work on dialing it in at the track. Then watch some guy with twice the money you have go and steal your thunder! Build a car you hate to drive and have to work on all the time. I think it's like how people describe cocaine....

 

Hello,

I do not think 90 lbs. is something to worry about. It is like a teenage daughter in the passenger seat going to/from family functions. Get the motor set up running great, make sure the suspension will allow safe handling and you can overcome any blind spots when driving your hot rod. The cars are made to work with everything. Adding full upholstery, sound deadening, chrome accessories and what ever else is extra can get a second look or for future purchases as time and money allow. Those add weight, but are a part of the whole hot rod experience. Some do , some do not...

For now, think of your daughter or granddaughter or friend that weighs 90 + pounds. Would you ask them to lose weight to ride in your car? HA! Plus, your motor will have plenty of power to overcome the steepest of road grades or travel going up the local steep mountain roads. So, it is, or should not be something to worry about.

As a teen, I had a Flathead powered 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery as my surf exploration hot rod. It once had a powerful 348 Chevy motor. That would have been a fast way to get to our So Cal beach activities. But, it was not a happening thing and for a lower cost, I could afford a Flathead version. It was an underpowered sedan delivery when we had a couple of longboards + beach/camping gear in the back, let alone another passenger.

The motor worked hard to overcome the lack of horsepower with the added weight. So, there were plenty of days of slow climbs in 3rd gear that got downshifted to 2nd and then the traffic forced a sometimes 1st gear climb, to get to the top and over the hump(s).

Jnaki


If it is a bare chassis set up for competition and weight is the deciding factor, then think about it. When we were in our Willys Coupe with a 671 SBC phase, we actually added 1 inch thick steel plates welded in place over the rear axle to drop us into C/Gas Class. The welded in additional weight was fine as it gave structure and strength to the chassis. Otherwise, the car would have been in the B/gas class. YRMV

 

So I saw mention of “51” assume a ‘51 Chevy? Probably had a 235/216. The 235/216 is about 25lbs lighter than a BBC.
You can compare Al. bolt ons and see how you can compare then.

 

I don't think that is correct.
Turbo 400 without converter = 140 lb
700r4 without converter = 135 lb

Anyway, using a 700r4 allows the use of a higher ratio rear end which will more than overcome a 90 lb weight problem.

 

My car from the factory with the 6 and overdrive came in at #3460 on the title. With the 355 and aluminum heads, intake, radiator I shaved off an easy #100.

Which is now offset with the floor jack and tools in the trunk..

 

There have been quite a few good suggestions. As was pointed out, I'm back down under the original weight of the engine when you factor in the aluminum intake, heads, and water pump. The car will run an alternator so more weight loss. I couldn't find any fiberglass bumpers, but working on boats has given me the required skills to make them. Wonder if there is a market for them?

Yes, I want it to be a dual purpose car. I've had a drag car that was driven on the street. It was fun at the time, but I was 21 at the time. Lots of money and excitement. Not a realistic goal anymore, I'm 64 now. I want a street car that can run down the track and be respectable. I don't want to race cubic dollars as I can't afford it. I want the car to be able to run 10s or low 11s. Run it at 11.5 or even 12 and I won't have to worry about the tune for that particular track quite as much. Since a 100 pounds is about a tenth give or take, removing weight now is a reasonable goal. If I fall too far down that rabbit hole, then lexan windows and a gutted interior could happen. For now, I think being able to remove some of it for the track might work.

Yep doing that. Dropped 30 pounds since October.

Yes, having some of the comfort items is a good thing and I do want some of them for the build. But, if using newer materials for the interior saves weight, I should go there before I do the interior. If one sound deadener is lighter and works the same, before installing it is the time to figure it out. Lightning holes have been used in aircraft for years and the holes are not visible from the outside. Maybe drilling holes in the window regulators is better than holes in the panels, while still retaining the regulators for now. I will need windows that open if I'm not installing the AC. The inner fenders or part there of, may be sacrificed for the headers.

On the lighter side, I try not to think of female friends weighing 90 to 140 lbs wanting to ride in the car. Yes weight is critical and clothes weigh a lot, they should wear very little to nothing at all. The only consideration then would be how fast and how far we want to go. But, that is a lot more expensive than building a good multipurpose car. And as for my grand daughters, their dad hasn't warmed to the idea of sending them to a convent until they are 30 something so they are not allowed to ride in fast cars with guys.

 

I've watched David Freiburger (both in Hot Rod Magazine and now in video) most of my life chase quarter mile times, and I've never quite understood it. It's always kind of the same thing. The car runs a XX.10 or XX.20 and it has to run a XX.99 because it's so close. So the car is reworked making it more drag-focused, just to run a meaningless number. Then the car is either never used because it's not streetable, is sold, or is turned back to street function. I call it the Freiburger dilemma.

I like your thought of using the lighter of parts available: sound deadening, wheels, tires, intake, cylinder heads, etc. I like to more make a car work optimally with all the parts it has. Whatever it runs, if everything is sorted, it's well tuned, and running as well as can be for how it's set up, then that sounds like success to me. Sounds like you're on the right track.

 

snopro, well said!
Man's need to push the limits
VS
The definition of Insanity; Doing the same thing expecting a different result.

 

That's exactly what I plan to do with my ratty '55 Buick. 455 Buick, manual trans, and shoot for dead reliable high 12's for drag and drive stuff. To me it's like power tour with an emphasis toward performance instead of just reliability.

 

I'd plan to carry any Buick-specific engine parts you can easily replace with you. Not sure your experience with the 455, but with mine I find very little is available on the shelf at a local parts store.

 

Your question reminds me a lot of the guy I got my '62 Impala from. When he was showing me the car, he pointed out a box in the trunk containing the original 3.31 gears for the rear end. He said he'd swapped in a set of 4.11's into the factory (posi) when he swapped the 283 for the rumpity-rump 454. "Why did you do that?", I asked.
"It seemed like a good idea at the time", he said and shook his head.
Stripping your car of sound deadening, upholstery, undercoating, radio, carpet, and other "creature comforts" in a car that's only occasionally going to see strip use seems like you're going to give up a LOT in drivability and comfort for bragging rights about having a "race ready" car.
Just my opinion, it's your car, you can do what you want of course. For my part, a 3.31 pumpkin is going back into my Impala because it's miserable to drive with 4.11's...