Technical How to wire something like a power antenna?

Ok, so I am trying to set up a winter grille to open and close with an electric motor instead of vacuum. Ideally I want it to open with the ignition turned on and close with it off.

How would you do this?

I currently have a airdoor motor out of a mustang, I could use with limit switchs.

Or I could buy a linear actuator, I only need about 1 inch of pull.

The winter grille could be spring loaded either closed or open.

I have been looking at wiring for linear actuators but they all use a toggle switch on-off-on. I can’t figure out how to do it with power on-off.

 

I’m no help, but this is what it’s all about, good luck

 

With one these. Used on air induction flapper hood scoops (Chevelle, Camaro, T/A) Available anywhere muscle car parts are sold Just energize that spade, make sure the thing is grounded. Easy peazy lemon squeezy.

 

You need a linear actuator that has "limit switches" so that constant power doesn't burn it out.
Then you need 2 x relays which have reverse posts . both activated by Ignition , or oil pressure [or whatever]

Relay 1 goes from + [battery] to + on the motor when activated and the reverse post to the - on the motor

Relay 2 goes from - [ground] to - on the motor when activated and the reverse post to the + on the motor

When activated 1 is + and 2 is - [when switched off, 1 is - and 2 is + ,reversing the polarity to the motor]

I would start looking at a flip-up headlight motor out of an RX7 or 3rd/4th Gen Trans-Am

 

One thought... if you happen to be using an electric fan(s) on your radiator, will the fan keep running after the engine stops, like in a new car? If so, you might want to wire the actuator to close the grille after power to the fans is cut-off instead of the ignition. Gary

 

With a winter grill wouldn't you want it closed to get it to warm up faster? If it opens when the ignition turns on you could just use a normal hood. Let me know if I am thinking wrong.
Tony

 

What is the benefit of having a winter grille if it opens and closes with ignition power? Thermostat controlled seems to make more sense....using thermo switch on engine to open/close with spring loaded ‘open’ as ‘fail safe mode’.....

 

You could do a combination of 2 ideas above- Use a solenoid to open them (Have them spring-loaded to close when the ignition is off), and you could use an electronic temperature controller in series with the solenoid to close them if the motor is too cold.

 

I agree this would be the easiest, and the cheapest so I tried it first. The problem I ran into is there wasn’t enough strenght in the pull at the beginning of the stroke. Since it only pulled one way the other direction had to be spring loaded. Also this made it so that the shutters would fail closed instead of open, Unless I wanted to power the unit when the car was off, neither of which was an acceptable condition.[/QUOTE]

 

It is not actually a winter grille but just the shuttters on a 30 Buick. We had to replace the Radiator and there just wasn’t a way to save the original thermal assembly, and it will have an electric fan (again required due to size and placement) the 455 that we will be running would have placed a mechanical fan too low.

I have ordered a liniar accuator and some relays like this

https://www.progressiveautomations.com/mini-linear-actuator

Hoping if I use two relays I can get the results I want.



Like this

https://www.progressiveautomations....KeyTurn_Switch_Control_of_Linear_Actuator.pdf

 

I would use a large vacuum diaphragm.

 

Maybe you are trying to make this too hard, why not a push/pull choke cable? And take the spring off.

 

That’s the backup option. The fear was forgetting to open the shutters and drive down the road and overheat the engine. Yes yes warning light temp gauges should all warm you ahead of time but, if you could simply get in and go, it would be preferable.

 

I agree with squirrel, vacuum would be an easy solution I think. Engine running-open, not running-closed.

 

Well you could add a shutters closed indicator light and cable operation.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

The diagram you show will require a on-off-on type switch, so trying to use the ignition switch won't work. You can re-wire the components so it will work, although you'll have to make sure the built-in actuator limit switches will function at both ends of the travel when operating.

First, power the relay coils from a single switched source, i.e. the ignition switch. This is for having the grill open anytime the car is 'on'.

Next, leave the motor leads on the 'common' terminal (marked P on the drawing) at the relays; one to each relay.

Next, connect unswitched constant 12V power to the NO contact on one relay, and to the NC contact on the other relay.

Finally, connect your grounds to the remaining connections on the relays.

Sequence of operation:
Power off, there's no power to the relay coils, and 12V power is applied to the 'close' operation on the motor. Once the motor reaches full stroke closed, the internal limit switch disconnects power and you have no current drain.
Power on, both relays operate, input power to the motor is 'flipped', the grill opens and once full stroke is made, the internal limit switch disconnects power to the motor.

If the motor runs backwards for the desired function, simply switch the motor leads at the relays. It's critical that the internal limit switches operate, otherwise you'll burn the motor up.

 

Just been talking to my brother who's a car electrics nerd!
He said "buy a central lock kit."
Most central lock actuators disengage power when they reach full travel.
And some do it Via the control box supplied [that is pulse activated]

This means if you hold your finger constantly on the button on a central lock, it doesn't do any harm.
Most central lock control boxes can be pulsed via 1 relay [posts 87 and 87a] to go up or down. [87 to open and 87a to close the shutters]

If you want to get really clever use a thermostat electric fan switch to trigger the relay [you can get various temp settings]

 

Bought a couple of cars where someone insatalled an antena or a radio...
Dont know the exact steps but u should end up with something like this

 

The problem with lock actuators is they require two inputs; one for 'open', one for 'lock'. The OP wants to use a single input.

 

The problem I ran into with vacuum canisters was, one they are big and ugly, two specs I couldn’t find pull or push force on any of them if you have some links or models that would be great. It is right up front in the engine compartment, next to the Radiator hose. So circumference size becomes a factor.

I looked at this one but no size listed or stroke lenght or really anything.
https://www.jegs.com/i/ACDelco/065/...ioKuR5YvHWgbZGfJyp1muuVQR1o2lymBoCrxUQAvD_BwE

 

So steve is this the relay I should be using.
https://www.progressiveautomations.com/media/catalog/pdf/Push Button Control.pdf

Wired like this

 

The other idea is to run a switch so you have to open the shutters before you can start the car.

 

An actuator doesn’t have to be located at the radiator. A sheathed cable assembly, larger than a choke cable, more like a motorcycle type, could permit remote mounting of the power unit.

 

That's why you use a 5 post "diverter" relay. [post 87 to open and post 87a to close] [post 30 from power+]
[post 85 and 86 , goes from the +triggering source to ground] either one

Type B is the standard model


Central lock control boxes eliminate the need for 2 relays, and some electronically limit the actuator.
And if one relay gets stuck on a 2 relay system it creates a short circuit.

 

If it were me depending on the width of the grille I would have ran 2 of the hood flap solenoids, one on each side the grille thus doubling it's ability to open.

 

A 2PDT relay would be a better choice (taking care of a possible short-circuit scenario if one SPDP relay failed) but the diagram doesn't appear to have power to retract the actuator, only extend it. Here's a quick and dirty drawing showing the correct wiring....




Same sequence as using two SPDT relays, and you'll still need to make sure the limit switches operate.

 

80’s Ford power door lock motor should have enough torque to open and close it. I’d wire it to be open all the time, then use a switch with a warning light to close them when needed.

 

Needs more wire nuts.

 

And when you nail the loud pedal the grille vents will close.


Mullet thoughts:
You could use a system like a 67 Camaro RS headlight door. Electric motor, limit switches. GM only did that for 1 year before going to vacuum because they never worked and cost a lot. Of course neither did the vacuum canisters in '68. So in '69 they cut slots in the doors so the headlights could be used at night when the vacuum doors failed to open. In '70 they ditched the idea and never went back to hidden headlights. Things that make you go hmmm [running fingers through mullet].

 

I hope you got your answer long ago. If you did not, this is simple to do. You make simple latching circuit. All it takes is 3 SPDT relays. Yes it can be done with just two relays but as you are starting the vehicle you don't want the actuator trying to open and if the vehicle doesn't start it closes. What you want is to use the third relay with a time delay. I can provide links and diagrams. Can't post now since I do not know if they are allowed here.